TIMS Down - 2/19/14

[Snapshot]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I don't think anyone was asking for a week extension or anything.... just enough time yesterday... say until the end of the day... to be able to turn in the document.

This is precisely what we wanted. Even just a couple of hours open to give teams that missed it enough time to turn in their final submissions would be greatly appreciated.

It seems that the topic is incredibly divided between opinions of the East-coast robotics teams and the west-coast robotics teams. I just want to remind people that, with the deadline that currently exists for Dean's list, teams that are incapable of determining team members to be nominated for Dean's list until near the deadline find the time a lot harder to turn in essays at 9 AM in the morning, as opposed to noon on the east coast.

I know our team missed the deadline, and our Dean's list nominees (I myself, a junior and one of our team's nominees), parents, and coach are upset, but I can't help but feel even worse for the likelihood that some rookie team on the west-coast had been denied the opportunity because of issues with TIMS.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Snapshot

This is precisely what we wanted. Even just a couple of hours open to give teams that missed it enough time to turn in their final submissions would be greatly appreciated.

It seems that the topic is incredibly divided between opinions of the East-coast robotics teams and the west-coast robotics teams. I just want to remind people that, with the deadline that currently exists for Dean's list, teams that are incapable of determining team members to be nominated for Dean's list until near the deadline find the time a lot harder to turn in essays at 9 AM in the morning, as opposed to noon on the east coast.

I know our team missed the deadline, and our Dean's list nominees (I myself, a junior and one of our team's nominees), parents, and coach are upset, but I can't help but feel even worse for the likelihood that some rookie team on the west-coast had been denied the opportunity because of issues with TIMS.

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

[mathking]

I think the comparisons to the end of build season are not really fair. This problem is more akin to the old days when weather or some other issue would prevent FedEx from getting to a build site to pick up the robot. I guess the part I really do not like is the glibness of saying "Submission has been open since November..." We never decide for sure on our nominees until toward the end of the build season. If we are nominating our best two candidates, we want to include what they did this year. Both of our candidates had things we included in the essay that they did in the latter part of this season. We did have both essays uploaded ahead of time. But when we were ready submit the system was down. And it didn't get back up until after both of the mentors who can submit were busy with work. Yes it is our fault, in that we could have done it a couple of days ahead of time. But we would not have had nearly as good a submission. In the grand scheme of things, this might make us decide on candidates earlier in order to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by mathking

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.

I think this is a great suggestion for future improvements!

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by mathking

I would love for FIRST to pursue some simple technical solutions. Perhaps you can save and if the system is down the saved essay would be submitted. This would make me feel a lot better about starting ahead of time, as it would be possible to update with good things without running the risk of timing out in submission.

This is already how the system is setup.
The problem is that FIRST should have explained that, OR if they did, I didnt see it. Perhaps teams would have planned to have submitted early for the just in case scenarios.
When we submitted early, we thought it was final. Instead, the system actually allowed us to make changes even after clicking the submit button.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

Maintaining server uptime is a solved problem. Controlling the weather is not. I'm not sure how the two are equivalent and this comparison is a bit ridiculous.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Madison

Maintaining server uptime is a solved problem. Controlling the weather is not. I'm not sure how the two are equivalent and this comparison is a bit ridiculous.

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Taylor

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

I'm not complaining that the deadline was at 9am. I'm upset because I set aside time from my schedule to do EXACTLY as people here are suggesting -- submit it early -- and the system was unavailable to me.

I asked another of our mentors to set aside more of her time to check on the system and submit it the following morning after I spent more than an hour trying to do the same the evening before.

It's not unreasonable to ask that the system work reliably, especially near the end of submission window and the fact remains that FIRST (yet again) doesn't seem to value the time I spend trying to work around and accommodate their failures.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Taylor

So is the assertion that expecting a professional to function before 10a is preposterous.

Woah, low blow. Some of us don't function too hot before certain hours for a variety of reasons. I don't know Madison's exact scenario (and I frankly don't think it's relevant here) but I know there've been plenty of times I've not been functional before 10am due to work reasons. When you are up until 4am babysitting a server expecting you to be functional the next day is preposterous.

So, as a professional who doesn't function before 10 am frequently - a 9-5 job isn't what makes you professional, doing your dang job is. And the idea that we have to work on someone else' schedule is ridiculously narrow minded.

Mike, I expected better than this from you.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

All I want is time to make up for what was lost due to being locked out of my team's shop due to uncontrollable weather issues. 7 days of Build Season lost. I don't want 7 days time worth, just enough to test our chassis. Sure, we can withhold 45 lbs, but we didn't have time to test our drive-train before bagging it. And the west-coast teams got at least 3 extra hours during Build Season. With those three hours we may have been able to test the programming.

How about people who couldn't submit Dean's List get an extra three hours to submit their essays, and people who lost valuable time on their robot because of snow days get an extra three hours to work on their robots?

How would you have felt if your weather conditions closed the school on Tuesday and you could not have put your robot in the bag and FIRST told you you could not compete? It is a deadline after all...

These teams were ready to submit... it was not a matter of needing extra time to finish the submissions.... this ball was dropped by FIRST....

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

How would you have felt if your weather conditions closed the school on Tuesday and you could not have put your robot in the bag and FIRST told you you could not compete? It is a deadline after all...

These teams were ready to submit... it was not a matter of needing extra time to finish the submissions.... this ball was dropped by FIRST....

There was plenty of time to submit. The site came back up with at least 3 hours to spare. It wasn't convenient. It probably was a pain in the butt for people who did set alarms for 5:00 AM, BUT it was possible.

IF the system had STAYED crashed through Noon Eastern time and never came back up before the deadline passed, THEN I would call foul by FIRST.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

IF the system had STAYED crashed through Noon Eastern time and never came back up before the deadline passed, THEN I would call foul by FIRST.

I believe this was the case for our team. We attempted to submit with 20 minutes remaining and the website wasn't accepting it. We e-mailed FIRST the entry and hope to hear a reply soon. Technically we were done prior to the deadline and the website didn't accept our entry.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

I believe this was the case for our team. We attempted to submit with 20 minutes remaining and the website wasn't accepting it. We e-mailed FIRST the entry and hope to hear a reply soon. Technically we were done prior to the deadline and the website didn't accept our entry.

That could be a possible issue. What day/time did your team attempt to submit?
According to this thread, the site was back up as of 8:36 AM Eastern time.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

That could be a possible issue. What day/time did your team attempt to submit?
According to this thread, the site was back up as of 8:36 AM Eastern time.

We tried around 10:40 AM CST. I just found out that FIRST also did not accept our appeal. It would be one thing if we were past the deadline to submit the entry, but technically it was before noon EST and the failure was on their end. I guess next year we'll make sure not to include some of the build season successes of our students and submit much earlier. Thanks FIRST!

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

We tried around 10:40 AM CST. I just found out that FIRST also did not accept our appeal. It would be one thing if we were past the deadline to submit the entry, but technically it was before noon EST and the failure was on their end. I guess next year we'll make sure not to include some of the build season successes of our students and submit much earlier. Thanks FIRST!

Wow, so you tried to submit right before the deadline, you contacted FIRST about the situation, and could do nothing about it.

I cant believe its not being rectified.