[FRCTop25.com] Week 1 Preview Show!

[JohnFogarty]

This is definitely the year of the lower seed advantage I think. I'd like to hear some discussion on that though.

[billylo]

It's also a year for scouting and strategy. The more I look at this game, the more interesting it becomes. Good engineering is only part of the game.

Looking forward to the show.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

some of us just got banned for saying "hi" to a team. Just sayin'

Could be worse, like getting banned for no reason and not even knowing.

[barn34]

will there be an archive of the show somewhere for anyone who may not be able to tune in live?

[barn34]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

This is definitely the year of the lower seed advantage I think. I'd like to hear some discussion on that though.

I actually think this is going to vary quite a bit by regional. One very big advantage a top seeded team could have is being able to start out with that perfect 75 point autonomous score (or very close to it) taken care of mostly between the two high ranked robots alone. That's something that may or may not be easily duplicated at the lower seeds depending on shooting capability and hot goal recognition. Again, this discrepancy will vary wildly by regional, I think.

After autonomous, there is quite a bit of variance on how things could play out depending on that third robot's capability to synergize well with the other high seed robots in just one facet of the game. That could be shooting, outlet passing, defense, etc. This will require the other two robots to be very versatile in their skill sets in order to accomodate the vast array of possibilities for that third alliance partner capability. If the top robots are too one dimensional or too hesitant to adjust their playstyle based on their partners, I think that's the recipe for top seeds getting upset.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by barn34

I actually think this is going to vary quite a bit by regional. One very big advantage a top seeded team could have is being able to start out with that perfect 75 point autonomous score (or very close to it) taken care of mostly between the two high ranked robots alone. That's something that may or may not be easily duplicated at the lower seeds depending on shooting capability and hot goal recognition. Again, this discrepancy will vary wildly by regional, I think.

After autonomous, there is quite a bit of variance on how things could play out depending on that third robot's capability to synergize well with the other high seed robots in just one facet of the game. That could be shooting, outlet passing, defense, etc. This will require the other two robots to be very versatile in their skill sets in order to accomodate the vast array of possibilities for that third alliance partner capability. If the top robots are too one dimensional or too hesitant to adjust their playstyle based on their partners, I think that's the recipe for top seeds getting upset.

Except Multi-ball auto isn't rare like multi-disk auto was last year.

[barn34]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Except Multi-ball auto isn't rare like multi-disk auto was last year.

I'm thinking that while you've seen quite a few 2 ball autonomous modes in videos this year, you're not going to see very many regionals where that's an advantage the upper seeded teams won't have. For example, even if 2 ball is a skill that 8 to 10 teams could have at a regional, most of those teams would likely get paired up with each other. That still only covers teams seeded 1-4 or 5. Then, you also have to factor in hot goal recognition. I'm not thinking that's a skill you assume teams that make it down the pick list on the back end of the snake will have either.

I agree that 2 ball is not as rare as multi disc auto was last year...but that doesn't mean you can assume to see 1/3 of a regional roster to have that ability either.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Except Multi-ball auto isn't rare like multi-disk auto was last year.

It's too early to lay claims like this down. You underestimate the attitude of teams on the field, robot issues, and autonomous alignment issues. Yes, multi ball autos may be more common than last year's multidisk auto, but I wouldnnt call it a common occurence yet.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by JohnFogarty

Except Multi-ball auto isn't rare like multi-disk auto was last year.

The motions of a multi-ball auto will be more common, however I predict there will be many robots that take 2 shots and only hit 1. I predict that at maximum there will 4 robots at a regional with consistent 2 ball autonomous modes, and MAYBE 2 that have consistent 3 ball autonomous modes.

A lot of these reveal videos only show you the times it made it, not the failed attempts before and/or after.

However, I would say it would be a good idea for ALL teams to come up with an autonomous mode that will do nothing for about 7-9 seconds (depending on how fast you can get to the forward zone) and then drive forward, in order to be able to better take advantage of these multi-ball autonomous modes. Even if you think your robot is too good to not shoot it's own ball, mechanical failures happen. If you find your shooter broken going into the match and your alliance partner can cover for it in autonomous, you will be glad you were prepared.

[Gregor]

I think the hot goal is being overvalued. While a the hot goal is a nice thing to have to maximize your points, at the end of the day 15 points (max) is a fairly small margin to make up. One missed catch, truss, shot, or assist almost makes up for it.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Gregor

I think the hot goal is being overvalued. While a the hot goal is a nice thing to have to maximize your points, at the end of the day 15 points (max) is a fairly small margin to make up. One missed catch, truss, shot, or assist almost makes up for it.

Even less than 15. Robots scoring in autonomous with no "hot zone" recognition will still incidentally score hot points on average half the time. Still, the "percentage points" (to your win probability) add up enough to make it worth it.

(yes I know that the math is different if you assume 2 robots on the same alliance shooting "dumb" into separate goals)

[Mike Starke]

Originally Posted by barn34

will there be an archive of the show somewhere for anyone who may not be able to tune in live?

Yes there will be!


This is also a great time to mention that we have moved one more final time. You can catch tonight's show at new.livestream.com/FRCTop25.

Can't wait to see you all tonight!

[Bill_B]

I agree multi-ball auto is featured in quite a few reveals. However, who is programming an auto mode that is "leave the ball and go for the colored zone?" I mean balls have to touch a robot and very few videos have shown that. They simply start with two balls in the vicinity of their machine.

[bduddy]

Some topics I'm shocked haven't been brought up yet:

1) How powerful can a dedicated 'goalie' robot really be?

2) Which is more important - good robots, or a good strategy?

[barn34]

Originally Posted by BigJ

Even less than 15. Robots scoring in autonomous with no "hot zone" recognition will still incidentally score hot points on average half the time. Still, the "percentage points" (to your win probability) add up enough to make it worth it.

(yes I know that the math is different if you assume 2 robots on the same alliance shooting "dumb" into separate goals)

I understand what you're saying about a 15 point swing not being drastic or insurmountable, but there's something to be said about knowing that you'll have a consistent score after autnonomous that doesn't leave any wasted points on the table. That's one less deficit to try and overcome in any given match and one less variable to remove from the equation when planning an optimum strategy for scoring.