Week 1 Analysis

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

It seems to me that the perfect alliance would score in autonomous, get into position, and then never move.

Why wouldn't a team that's waiting for a ball to cycle not just play defense in their zone? It would make the other alliance use up some time.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by atucker4072

Why wouldn't a team that's waiting for a ball to cycle not just play defense in their zone? It would make the other alliance use up some time.

Because they'd be so busy scoring they wouldn't have time to get back into position!

...but yes, the less-than-perfect alliance will have to deal with the vagaries of life in robot-land.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by lineskier

The fix was estimated even before week zero. I heard that given the number of fields it was estimated at over $60k. Where I totally agree something needs to be done, I also understand FIRST waiting to see how big of an issue it really was. However after week zero, and one day of qualifications, I think they have their answer.

Regardless of if this really is an "issue" or not, the fact that FIRST can't figure out a way to fix that goal for under $60k is really scary. Our "cheap and stupid" ball ramp that rolls the ball out the side cost less than $20.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I am talking about even if your team runs "the perfect cycle", each robot is relegated to defense for 2/3 of the match.

Even the announcers are like, "team blah blah blah is not moving, something's wrong ... oh wait, they are just waiting for the ball" ... so dumb.

I agree. Like in 03, once you're ahead in points, defense is the best strategy. My favorite part was when the announcer said a robot was broken, then the robot spun around to show they worked.

Other memorable moments included 148 spinning because their drivers were bored, 118 sitting and waiting 10 seconds for a ref to notice that they were waiting for a cycle, and when 190 got to restart their match (that they were dead in) because the ref accidentally lit up the pedestal before the auto balls were cleared.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Canon reeves

Probably one of the best matches I've ever watched, it was a tie 85 to 85, red alliance had already won the first final, texplosion played amazing defense, robowranglers were scoring great, so were robonauts, but in the end after further review robonauts alliance won by ten points! Can someone post a video of that match?

Best you ever watched? I saw half a match of botched gameplay. Yeah, there was good defense, but man that was hard to watch. There were zero points scored in 45+ seconds.

Originally Posted by magnets

Regardless of if this really is an "issue" or not, the fact that FIRST can't figure out a way to fix that goal for under $60k is really scary. Our "cheap and stupid" ball ramp that rolls the ball out the side cost less than $20.

I have seen zero credible sources suggest that a) FIRST would like to "fix" the problem, but cannot afford to, or b) that the cost to do so is $60,000. This rumor seems to have gained legs because one dude heard a guy who knows a guy that...

Maybe it's true, but who knows?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Cory

There were zero points scored in 45+ seconds.

Yes, but not for a lack of trying, by some very good robots.

I won't respond further on this topic, because I've made my opinion known--at least until after next week--but thus far I very much liked how this played out.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

This game ranks right up there with 2003. May even be "better".

A number of times this morning I said: "This is the worst game since 2003".

By this afternoon, I was saying this is the worst FRC game I've played.

...at least they can't put Championship at the Astrodome anymore.

[tkell274]

I for one love the defense this year. It makes the game a lot more exciting and it adds pressures to the better teams that in past years just had to maneuver around to a safe zone to score. Teams will get better and scoring will increase which will make all the defense and scoring that much better to watch.

[Jonathan Norris]

The Defense is crazy out there, it's certainly making for an interesting and controversial game. With the amount of contact, keeping robots (and appendages) working is going to be a big factor in alliance success.

The biggest thing that surprised me is how dangerous this game can be for field staff/volunteers. I've seen balls scored and take out DJ booths and railings, balls are constantly bouncing/being fired at field staff and referees, and a couple that have almost taken out the scoring table. With the steps taken last year to make firing frisbees safer, these 2 pound balls are ending up everywhere outside the field. I'm not saying that the balls are more dangerous, just surprised that there isn't netting behind the goals and sides of the field. It would be interesting to hear from those who have actually been by field level.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

The Defense is crazy out there, it's certainly making for an interesting and controversial game. With the amount of contact, keeping robots (and appendages) working is going to be a big factor in alliance success.

The biggest thing that surprised me is how dangerous this game can be for field staff/volunteers. I've seen balls scored and take out DJ booths and railings, balls are constantly bouncing/being fired at field staff and referees, and a couple that have almost taken out the scoring table. With the steps taken last year to make firing frisbees safer, these 2 pound balls are ending up everywhere outside the field. I'm not saying that the balls are more dangerous, just surprised that there isn't netting behind the goals and sides of the field. It would be interesting to hear from those who have actually been by field level.

Seems marginally worse than 2008, since the game involves by its nature throwing a ball out of the field.

[Jonathan Norris]

Originally Posted by Racer26

Seems marginally worse than 2008, since the game involves by its nature throwing a ball out of the field.

2008 had 'cages' to try and keep the balls in the field.

[Justin Shelley]

Instead of bashing FIRST and the game why not accept it for what it is and make the best out of it?

Defense should evolve into a heavy part of FRC if it's supposed to resemble competitive sports at all. (Which I believe it should) If you didn't build your robot strong enough to handle the defense then that is on you.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Cory

I have seen zero credible sources suggest that a) FIRST would like to "fix" the problem, but cannot afford to, or b) that the cost to do so is $60,000. This rumor seems to have gained legs because one dude heard a guy who knows a guy that...

Maybe it's true, but who knows?

This guy heard it from a mentor of 18 years who heard it from an alumni who manufactured the fields. Also FIRST has grown immensely. I forget how much money runs through FIRST but it's a large amount. Working as a consultant at a large corporation myself, I know that all efforts receive a very substantial buffer. I'm guessing the large number came up as a rough estimation of how much it would cost to execute on the fix.

I completely agree that a fix should certainly cost much less than that, and that FIRST probably has chosen not to "fix" the problem as they clearly documented the specs for the field (minus some paint on the corners of the goals). I did not mean to attribute an exact amount to the estimate, I'm sure the number came out of a casual conversation.

I did not mean to get people hung up on the dollar value, I just wanted teams to know that FIRST was aware of it, that it seems that the effect on the game was underestimated, and that FIRST's official opinion on the issue has not been reported.

Sorry for starting a beast of a rumor...

[E Dawg]

I think many were not prepared for the huge role defense would be playing this year. Having a strong drive base this year is very important, because you simply cannot score if you are being pushed all over the place.

[mman1506]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

The Defense is crazy out there, it's certainly making for an interesting and controversial game. With the amount of contact, keeping robots (and appendages) working is going to be a big factor in alliance success.