New Central Illinois Regional Looking Good!

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

The blue alliance should have been red carded in the final finals match.

Intentionally tipping a robot falls well within the bounds of an automatic red card especially considering it had happened in the previous match with obvious consequences. Behavior like this on the part of a team or alliance is despicable and goes against the entire concept of this program. I've seen rough play before, but intentionally tipping over a robot goes above and beyond. I know, as many have already pointed out, that the outcome would not have been changed. This behavior needs to be publicly discouraged and the shame of losing a finals match in that way would have likely made it clear that it isn't okay.

Not quite. The manual says:


G27



Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not allowed.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL and YELLOW CARD

[PandaHatMan]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Not quite. The manual says:


G27



Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not allowed.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL and YELLOW CARD

Yes, but there's also this

The Head Referee may assign a YELLOW or RED CARD as a result of egregious ROBOT or Team member behavior at the ARENA. A RED CARD results in DISQUALIFICATION.

furthermore,

Examples of egregious behavior include, but are not limited to, severe and/or repeated violations of a rule and/or inappropriate behavior.

[BoilerMentor]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Not quite. The manual says:


G27



Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not allowed.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL and YELLOW CARD

I stand by my previous statement. I'd also venture my drivers (the student who posted in response) knows the rules as well as almost anyone. It was egregious and it happened multiple times.

[Ryan Dognaux]

What I observed from the stands - in Finals match 3, the referee pointed at 4296 after 4143 was tipped while waiving the red alliance flag, then made an X symbol by crossing his arms. I have never been a referee before so I'm not sure what that call means, but maybe someone else could elaborate?

[wesbass23]

Does anyone have video of any of the elimination matches? The stream was rather blurry and stopped streaming toward the end.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Ryan Dognaux

What I observed from the stands - in Finals match 3, the referee pointed at 4296 after 4143 was tipped while waiving the red alliance flag, then made an X symbol by crossing his arms. I have never been a referee before so I'm not sure what that call means, but maybe someone else could elaborate?

I've also never been a ref, but I believe that's supposed to mean a technical foul on the team he was pointing at.

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

Not quite. The manual says:
G27
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL and YELLOW CARD

This happened to 118 yesterday and the appropriate G27 violations were assessed.

[Logan Byers]

Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell

I've also never been a ref, but I believe that's supposed to mean a technical foul on the team he was pointing at.

As a referee, you are correct in your assumption that the referee was signaling a technical foul. That hand signal has been used over the past 3 years.

[1975Flyers]

Typical sporting event. Refs let them play. The game gets a little more physical. Both sides feel like they are the one being wronged. Both try defend their actions and believe they can call out the other teams intentions.

[Tom Ore]

For those who missed the finals, here is a summary of the tipping:

F1: 1:29 171 tips 4296, no foul
F2: 1:35 171 tips 4296, no foul
F2: 2:19 171 tips 1986, no foul
F3: 0:20 4296 tips 4143, technical foul
F3: 1:00 171 tips 4296, no foul

[Logan Byers]

Originally Posted by 1975Flyers

Typical sporting event. Refs let them play. The game gets a little more physical. Both sides feel like they are the one being wronged. Both try defend their actions and believe they can call out the other teams intentions.

FIRST isn't a "typical sporting event". In my opinion, FIRST is thriving to become much more than that.
Even so, referees in FIRST and in sports are suppose to control the attitude of game play. Referees can lose control of a game if they don't call the rules as intended. FIRST created the game rules to reflect the spirit of FIRST, as they state in some of the rules (G14, for example). If referees aren't enforcing the rules correctly, the competition can get out of hand and devolve in to a competition that does not reflect the spirit of FIRST.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Tom Ore

Apparently the refs discussed this after the match and decided not to call it because they didn't call it when 4296 was flipped twice and 1986 was flipped once. Definitely a very rough elimination round.

Originally Posted by Cataclysmatic

I believe that was ruled as a regular foul, resulting in the 20 points for red, and the technical from the ruled intentional tipping with 50 points to blue.

We could never get a good answer from the referees about the reason for either penalty called during Finals match 3, and I'm curious where you guys heard this, because they sound mutually exclusive. I find it hard to believe the refs would call intentional tipping on 4296 after no-calls on 3 previous tips. Regardless it was a very, very hard fought finals, easily the roughest matches I have seen in FRC. Congrats to both your teams as well as 1986 for the win.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by BoilerMentor

The blue alliance should have been red carded in the final finals match.

Intentionally tipping a robot falls well within the bounds of an automatic red card especially considering it had happened in the previous match with obvious consequences. Behavior like this on the part of a team or alliance is despicable and goes against the entire concept of this program. I've seen rough play before, but intentionally tipping over a robot goes above and beyond. I know, as many have already pointed out, that the outcome would not have been changed. This behavior needs to be publicly discouraged and the shame of losing a finals match in that way would have likely made it clear that it isn't okay.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but as Team 171's drive coach I can tell you we were not deliberately trying to tip any robots on the Red Alliance. We were playing defense as hard a we could, and in the process, robots got tipped over. A robots center of gravity is an important consideration during design, and I can't help it if robots with higher CG's got tipped. I'm quite embarrassed that we ended up tipping 4 robots, but I find it insulting that you would say we did it intentionally

[Tom Ore]

Originally Posted by JeremyLansing

I'm curious where you guys heard this, because they sound mutually exclusive. I find it hard to believe the refs would call intentional tipping on 4296 after no-calls on 3 previous tips.

I heard it third hand - but you're right it doesn't make sense. I re-watched the video and the ref does signal red foul and crosses his arms right after 4296 pushes 4143 over.

[DeAnnaC]

Originally Posted by wesbass23

Does anyone have video of any of the elimination matches? The stream was rather blurry and stopped streaming toward the end.

Videos are being cropped right now.. Will post when they are uploaded to youtube.