Week 1 Analysis

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

At the MAR events it looks like refs are pausing matches in the middle of teleop to discuss and assess penalties and assists...?

Yes, that is the case. Its a mix of that, and balls rolling out of the field and volunteers not knowing what to do with them, wasting valuable match time asking a ref what to do/just standing there.

At least at Hatboro, matches were being paused quite a bit. With a game like this, I think its a good thing to get it right instead of just letting the alliance go, unable to score.

Again though, Why can't we just insert the balls where they left the field?? Its much simpler then having to track down the nearest HP and run halfway across the field.

BALLS that are ejected from gameplay during a MATCH will be delivered to the closest HUMAN PLAYER of that BALL’S ALLIANCE by event staff at the next safe opportunity. This includes BALLS that go in GOALS but don’t meet the criteria to be considered SCORED.

This is silly and wastes time leaving an entire alliance with no way of advancing their score.

[jlmcmchl]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Thank you ether. Am I reading this correctly? Are rfpts and bfpts foul points, rhpts and bhpts hybrid (auto), and rtpts and btpts teleop?

If so, 25% of the points scored in the elims were fouls.

Also according to the data, only 3 match outcomes were decided by foul points.

#1, 7, 8. So, QF 1-1, 3-2 and 4-2.

Another note: .25 of red alliance's points were penalties (260 pts), while .29 of blue alliance's points were penalties (370 pts), almost 50% more penalty points than red recieved.

Additionally, the proportion of blue's penalty points to red's teleop/hybrid points is .47, and for the other alliance is .29. Higher-numbered alliances seem to have played much cleaner this week.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

Yes, that is the case. Its a mix of that, and balls rolling out of the field and volunteers not knowing what to do with them, wasting valuable match time asking a ref what to do/just standing there.

At least at Hatboro, matches were being paused quite a bit. With a game like this, I think its a good thing to get it right instead of just letting the alliance go, unable to score.

Again though, Why can't we just insert the balls where they left the field?? Its much simpler then having to track down the nearest HP and run halfway across the field.



This is silly and wastes time leaving an entire alliance with no way of advancing their score.

It is possible that some robots may not be able to pick balls off the floor; the rules as written make that an entirely viable strategy.

[bitty]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

Also according to the data, only 3 match outcomes were decided by foul points.

#1, 7, 8. So, QF 1-1, 3-2 and 4-2.

Another note: .25 of red alliance's points were penalties (260 pts), while .29 of blue alliance's points were penalties (370 pts), almost 50% more penalty points than red. I'll let you all make your own judgement from that.

Qf1-1 qf 1-2 qf 3-2 qf 4-2 and finals match 2 were won by penalities.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

Also according to the data, only 3 match outcomes were decided by foul points.

According to the Twitter data as of today at 3:54pmET, foul points affected the outcome of 87 of 693 Qual matches, and 13 of 127 Elim matches so far for all Events in Week1.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by bduddy

It is possible that some robots may not be able to pick balls off the floor; the rules as written make that an entirely viable strategy.

Other entirely viable strategies may include:

-Assists being attributed within the same century they occur
-The pedestals lighting up prior to the heat death of the universe
-Dead Ball cards being enforced better than county ordinances in the Old West
-Real time scoring functioning better than square wheels

At what point would FIRST decide to make changes to rules that may affect strategies of a very select few in order to better administer the game they designed? I can't answer that question.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by bduddy

It is possible that some robots may not be able to pick balls off the floor; the rules as written make that an entirely viable strategy.

What are the chances of having 3/3 robots that can't pick up from the floor?

And even then, you can still push it into the 1pt goal.

[JohnFogarty]

I'm actually somewhat confused about all these HP fouls....that never happened in the matches that 4901 played in at Palmetto.

[apples000]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Other entirely viable strategies may include:

-Assists being attributed within the same century they occur
-The pedestals lighting up prior to the heat death of the universe
-Dead Ball cards being enforced better than an anti-robbery police unit in the Old West
-Real time scoring functioning better than square wheels

At what point would FIRST decide to make changes to rules that may affect strategies of a very select few in order to better administer the game they designed? I can't answer that question.

This is the best post I've read all week.

The game is, IMO, broken because of the overused penalties, delayed scoring, incorrect scoring, lack of rule knowledge by referees, 2003-style defense gameplay and obscure field issues. Anything they can do to make the game "less broken" is good.

There's weird field stuff happening too. I've watched goofy timing display stuff on the webcasts, as well as delays between when a ball is scored and the assist lights go off and pedestal lights go on. Also, I've seen a few more timing issues with the hot goals (8 seconds left, 2 seconds right). Does anybody know how they're scoring these?

[turkbot]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

At Central Illinois, the refs are not calling G3 when teams lose their bumpers. Considering it should be a foul and disabling the robot, this is a pretty big deal.

Losing a bumper falls under the following.

G20
ROBOTS must be in compliance with Section 4.6: BUMPER Rules throughout the MATCH.

Violation: DISABLED


Hopefully FIRST fixes the bug that does not allow the head ref to disable from his scoring tablet as currently he has to run to the driver station to e-stop (disable) the robot.

[piersklein]

All this hype over aggressive defense this year is astounding. How did so many teams not anticipate this aspect of the game? This is especially important when some teams build weighted chassis battering rams as robots. I know my team wont have a problem, our entire robot is double extrusion and welded steel

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by piersklein

All this hype over aggressive defense this year is astounding. How did so many teams not anticipate this aspect of the game? This is especially important when some teams build weighted chassis battering rams as robots. I know my team wont have a problem, our entire robot is double extrusion and welded steel

I know that my team took a look at the game and saw that defense was going to be important but, the amount of defense and harshness was completely unexpected. I did not foresee many robot running almost full speed at each other as the main form of defense that there would be.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Other entirely viable strategies may include:

-Assists being attributed within the same century they occur
-The pedestals lighting up prior to the heat death of the universe
-Dead Ball cards being enforced better than an anti-robbery police unit in the Old West
-Real time scoring functioning better than square wheels

Pretty accurate summary. I would add autonomous hot goals.

Also, I've heard the referee data input stations are time consuming to navigate thereby causing massive delays in attributing assist, fouls, and scores.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Jared Russell

At the MAR events it looks like refs are pausing matches in the middle of teleop to discuss and assess penalties and assists...?

Jared-

Assuming you're talking about Mt. Olive, the incident involved a match stopped out of safety concerns (I'm almost certain based off the timestamp of a picture I have of why-it'll be posted to CD-media soon). For a short period of time, the match was going to be resumed, hence why the fouls that would be incurred were being discussed. Assists were never a question in the event I believe you're talking of. Eventually, it was determined the match would be reset.


Overall, it was a hectic game for week one. Being that the last 4 games have had some form of a protected zone, teams did not expect the defense that happened.

The biggest issue to me is that field crew/reset is a position this year that doesn't require any sort of game knowledge or training. I have more of an issue with that than Refs having to keep track of posessions* and usual ref stuff; it's just too much to add on ensuring field reset does the right thing.

*I'm differentiating posessions from assists.

[Canon reeves]

I didn't attend a week 1 regional, and I have read quite a bit about the damage caused and rough defense, but with this in mind, how did this years kitbot hold up? The frame is definitely weaker than last years so I wasn't sure how it would do.