Week 1 Analysis

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

I know that my team took a look at the game and saw that defense was going to be important but, the amount of defense and harshness was completely unexpected.

Not by anybody I talked to. Maybe this is a matter of experience, but wide open field + no safe zones = insane collisions.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Pretty accurate summary. I would add autonomous hot goals.

Also, I've heard the referee data input stations are time consuming to navigate thereby causing massive delays in attributing assist, fouls, and scores.

Although I haven't actually used one, they have different modes for scorekeeping and penalties, which could certainly cause some delays.

[Caleb Sykes]

I think that an appreciable portion (but certainly not all) of the "missed assists" that teams are complaining about is due to the very definition of ASSIST. In the heat of the match, it is easy to forget that robots must be in unique zones to get the ASSIST. This distinction never has an effect on single assists and rarely (if ever) has any effect on double assists. However, it takes a conscious effort by the alliance to achieve the triple assist.

Remember everyone POSSESSION =/= ASSIST.

[Sparky3D]

Originally Posted by piersklein

All this hype over aggressive defense this year is astounding. How did so many teams not anticipate this aspect of the game? This is especially important when some teams build weighted chassis battering rams as robots. I know my team wont have a problem, our entire robot is double extrusion and welded steel

I was expecting a ton of defense, but I was expecting "typical" FRC defense: getting rammed by an opponent's bumpers, an opponent getting in the way/pushing you around, opponents using arms to block/deflect shots. What I wasn't expecting was teams using their intakes as battering rams and hitting an opponent at high speed with them to try to dislodge a ball (without fouls being called), or 5 robots being tipped over during 3 finals matches. There is a difference between rough and violent, and some of the matches are really starting to push that line.

[Racer26]

I didn't see any robots tipped at GTRW, despite 1310 coming close a couple of times. I would guess that this is an artifact of the game generating mostly low-CG designs.

[Keiko]

I don't have a problem with whats being called a foul or a tech foul, but I do a have a problem when refs are calling such a small amount of them.

I feel as though there should be a ref watching each individual robot for fouls.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I don't have a problem with whats being called a foul or a tech foul, but I do a have a problem when refs are calling such a small amount of them.

I feel as though there should be a ref watching each individual robot for fouls.

How would you avoid mutual cause fouls being double called?
Where would you get the volunteers?

[jeremylee]

Originally Posted by Canon reeves

I didn't attend a week 1 regional, and I have read quite a bit about the damage caused and rough defense, but with this in mind, how did this years kitbot hold up? The frame is definitely weaker than last years so I wasn't sure how it would do.

Ours appears to have held up really well in the first regional with light re-reinforcements such as L plates connecting the inner/outer rails similar to am-2794 and some diagonal supports in the inner 4 corners. We have a 6 cim 2 speed installed and played a lot of defense, no major issues seen so far. Our biggest struggle with kit bot has been mounting bumpers. I'd keep some spare parts around just in case though.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

How would you avoid mutual cause fouls being double called?
Where would you get the volunteers?

I realize that that getting volunteers is an issue. The refs right now are trying their best to stay on top of all the fouls along with other aspects of the game.

But with that said, I would rather a foul be double called and cleared up by a coach who was keeping track of fouls, than the foul never getting called.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I realize that that getting volunteers is an issue. The refs right now are trying their best to stay on top of all the fouls along with other aspects of the game.

But with that said, I would rather a foul be double called and cleared up by a coach who was keeping track of fouls, than the foul never getting called.

As a coach, I have probably 3,000,000 more things to do than look out for multiple simultaneous flag waving while managing my team and alliance. I don't have 7 sets of eyes to watch all of the referees you want to add. There hasn't been a problem with foul tracking in the 5 referee system. When you add in score management to penalty oversight, it's been getting hairy.

[Abhishek R]

This has already been said, but I'll say it again from first-hand experience: scoring in autonomous is of extremely high importance. Especially if you face a good/heavy defensive team, if you miss your auto shots it will take you half the match to get the auto balls in the goals before you can start cycling.

Also...make sure your autonomous balls don't collide midair...

[Akash Shah]

Originally Posted by Sparky3D

I was expecting a ton of defense, but I was expecting "typical" FRC defense: getting rammed by an opponent's bumpers, an opponent getting in the way/pushing you around, opponents using arms to block/deflect shots. What I wasn't expecting was teams using their intakes as battering rams and hitting an opponent at high speed with them to try to dislodge a ball (without fouls being called), or 5 robots being tipped over during 3 finals matches. There is a difference between rough and violent, and some of the matches are really starting to push that line.

I was thinking the same way. I did not expect it to be like battle bots. Even though we did make it to the semi finals at Hatboro-Horsham District Event, we had a terrible experience with violent defense with our Robot breaking every match and fowls not being called when it should be. The qualification matches were all just ramming but the eliminations did calm down.

[Akash Shah]

During our time at our first competition, we broke several things such as very expensive pneumatic cylinders, pickup system, and bearings from other robots ramming into us and using there pickup as an attack

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by Akash Shah

During our time at our first competition, we broke several things such as very expensive pneumatic cylinders, pickup system, and bearings from other robots ramming into us and using there pickup as an attack

Watched you carrying your bot, like a Greek Hero fallen on the field of battle. It was inspiring. Congrats on your awards today, by the way!

We made a weird choice this year, and decided that minimal weight, rather than the 120 lbs, was ideal. We not only felt like moving quickly (to get away from defense and collisions) was the way to go, but that having more mass would make it more likely that we would absorb collisions, rather than bounce away from them.

Even so, we might be replacing some of our frame tubing with thicker stuff, depending on how early rounds go in Utah. Here's hoping that things smooth out before then...

[Racer26]

I can't be the only one that hearkens from the olden days of FRC (my rookie year was 2003). I like this return to the violent defense of yesteryear. Intentionally breaking robots should still be a no-no.

I took one look at this years game and immediately knew violent defense was going to be a thing, and consequently ROBOTs (and especially MECHANISMs that extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER) would need to be built to withstand a beating. With BUMPERs nowadays though, you don't see nearly as much in the way of bent frames like you used to back in 03/04.

4343 ran an AM14U kit chassis with some added stiffening measures through 14 matches of rough play this weekend at GTRW and it seems to have held up just fine.

I suspect many of the elites tested the robustness of their intakes by crashing their Ultimate Ascent bot (or another past robot) into it at full speed. I haven't seen any of the stronger teams have an intake I would consider 'fragile'.