G40 change?

[Racer26]

The truth of the matter though, is that in 12 years of FRC, I think I might have seen a human player actually touch a robot on the field mid-match once.

I haven't seen any human players even come close to touching a robot this year.

[Qbot2640]

I think that for any team with any reasonable attention to how things are going, the "problem" has just been fixed...it was an awareness thing, more than anything else. I still expect some teams to violate - but anyone reading CD now knows to be careful.

[Zuelu562]

In fact, I was discussing this particular penalty among other technical foul producing rules with other volunteers (all but 1 a current mentor) during lunch on Saturday at GSDE. One of the things we came up with was making it a regular foul for extending into the safety zone, while maintaining a technical for going INTO the field, intended or consequential extension into the safety zone, as well as situations where safety of the human was a concern. This was called A TON at GSDE and influenced the result of several matches (IIRC, an alliance who did not complete a cycle won a match due to this penalty).

The point of many rules that produce technicals is "SERIOUSLY. DON'T. DO. THIS." I have a feeling these calls will be happening less and less as the word spreads and teams figure out how to avoid them, but this reasoning applies to many other rules - If you're getting a technical for it, why did you do it in the first place?

[JosephC]

The safety zone needs to be more obvious then a tiny little piece of yellow tape. Sure it's easy not to produce a G40 if you stare at the yellow tape and make sure not to cross it, but then you aren't looking at the robot/field, which is far far more dangerous.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by JosephC

The safety zone needs to be more obvious then a tiny little piece of yellow tape. Sure it's easy not to produce a G40 if you stare at the yellow tape and make sure not to cross it, but then you aren't looking at the robot/field, which is far far more dangerous.

This.

[turkbot]

I understand why people may be frustrated with the G40 rule. While it may be difficult for human players to know exactly where the yellow tape is while inbounding, the rule is in place for their protection. Safety (along with gracious professionalism) is a vital aspect of FIRST. Learning safety and practicing it makes it become a lifelong habit.

Yes, the penalty is sever, but it is highly preventable...just like the potential for an injury while interacting with a robot.

As for a reason why this call occurring, in order to correctly capture/enter the possessions, the refs will watch the human player enter the ball at the beginning of each cycle. Additionally, as it revolves around the safety of people (not robots) a great amount of importance for this should be prioritized.

I personally don't foresee a change in the rule...so human players should practice inbounding accordingly. Many teams have a "pit-list" to prepare their robots for matches....human players should have the same and add this at the top.

[dradel]

How about we just accept the rule and the layout of the field and take a little responsibility for our actions???

Oh wait we don't teach that anymore do we!!??

[JosephC]

The biggest problem is the yellow tape isn't even right in front of the human player, most of the time when I see HP's toss the ball in its to their sides. Even a bright piece of string would greatly reduce the G40's we're seeing.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Racer26

The truth of the matter though, is that in 12 years of FRC, I think I might have seen a human player actually touch a robot on the field mid-match once.

I haven't seen any human players even come close to touching a robot this year.

I saw a HP toss a ball into a wrong-coloured robot, then reach into the field to grab it back, before a referee stopped him. Teams could be much better informed about the rule.

[dradel]

Again responsibility for ones actions.

[orangemoore]

I would say that the safety zone made the harder to follow. It was a lot easier to tell the line you couldn't pass when it ran the entire field.

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by dradel

Again responsibility for ones actions.

I'm all for this.

Here is the problem as I see it though:
The penalty is not proportional to the danger level/strategic gain, it is in extreme excess of it. For all of you that are saying the points awarded for a technical foul is fine, why is the number 50 so perfect for you? If the human players really are in such extreme danger when they cross the line by 1/8", why not make it a 100 point penalty? Or a yellow card? The reason that this is ridiculous is because the entire game would then be defined by the one little mistake instead of what the game is actually about. What I believe is that the 50-point technical foul for this penalty is already defining the game. Just look at the statistics on the percentage of matches decided by penalties to see what I mean. The punishment for breaking a rule should be proportional to the danger level or strategic gain that results from breaking this rule. There is almost no strategic advantage to crossing the line a little bit, and the dangers are basically nonexistent (since G41 covers all of the dangerous interaction). If the penalty for crossing the line were increased to 100 points, does anyone think that it would occur less often? I don't think it would, since the teams that know and understand this rule are already doing everything they can to stop it from happening, and the teams that don't know this rule still wouldn't know it after the change. In contrast, if the penalty were reduced to 20 points, does anyone realistically think that this would somehow encourage breaking this rule? I certainly don't. The HP that gets this penalty is going to feel terrible after the match either way. If she doesn't, then having a 50 point instead of a 20 point penalty will not make her feel worse.

Let's play a game that is defined by robots, not a game that is defined by somewhat arbitrary imaginary planes.

[yash101]

Live with it! It only makes the game more fun and challenging!!!

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by yash101

Live with it! It only makes the game more fun and challenging!!!

Not sure how 50 pt tech fouls every match make the game more fun and challenging, but maybe i'm just not in touch with what high schoolers consider fun nowadays.

[CaptainDanger]

the only reason a lot of G40 penalties have been given out is because lots of the human players haven't been practising staying within a certain spatial limit and don't completely understand what is expected of them. As a team, it's important that you go over all the rules of the game with your entire drive team. Just as drivers know what penalties they should be making sure to avoid, HP's need to know too! If it means sitting down and reading the game manual, then do it!
As an HP myself, I'm a little scared but hey at least I know about the dangers of incurring this penalty and am conscious of the fact that I need to avoid getting a G40 at all costs!