Autonomous Decisions- HUGE Impact...

[thmeans06]

After watching an entire district event (Southfield, MI), I have learned something that seems many teams have yet to catch on to...

1. Autonomous is a big impact on match score, as always.
2. Starting a cycle to get those assist points is EXTREMELY important, as the assist points are significantly more than the points for scoring a ball.

So my question: If you are unable to score a ball in autonomous and neither of your alliance partners have a 2-ball autonomous, can you start the match with the ball off of the field completely? Below is the vague rule...

G5
For ROBOTS starting in the white ZONE, the TEAM MAY preload one (1) of their ALLIANCE’s BALLS such that the BALL is touching their ROBOT.

For ROBOTS starting in their GOALIE ZONE the TEAM may decide if the BALL is: staged between the TRUSS and the ZONE LINE and not contacting an ALLIANCE partner, or removed from the FIELD for the MATCH.

If a ROBOT does not report to a MATCH, its ALLIANCE may decide if the BALL is: staged between the TRUSS and the ZONE LINE and not contacting an ALLIANCE partner, or removed from the FIELD for the MATCH.

Violation: If the situation is not corrected before the start of the MATCH, TECHNICAL FOUL per BALL improperly staged.

The rule is very unclear, but could pay a major role in starting a cycle. Any input?

[Squeakypig]

If your team chooses, you do not have to start the match with a ball. This allows teams to go for the 5 mobility points who do not have the means to score a ball (instead of starting in the goalie zone where mobility points cannot be awarded).

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by thmeans06

So my question: If you are unable to score a ball in autonomous and neither of your alliance partners have a 2-ball autonomous, can you start the match with the ball off of the field completely? Below is the vague rule...

Yes, you can start the match with the ball off the field entirely. The rule says that a team 'may start' with a ball in contact with their robot - not that they 'must start' with a ball in contact with their robot.

If you can't score the ball in autonomous and aren't confident in their ability to do so immediately into teleop, it's a smart move to not start with the ball.

[Greg Needel]

You can choose not to preload your ball if you want. If nobody on your alliance pre-loads you can go right into cycles at the start of teleop. I will say that if nobody on your team has an auton the chances of loosing the match are much higher as you will probably be behind the whole match and not having an auton is a representation that your partners are probably weaker teams during teleop.

Tldr: you don't need to preload all the bots.

[Jarren Harkema]

The way I've interpreted the rule is if you don't want a ball, you don't have to have one. In fact I saw multiple matches where there were only one or two balls loaded at the beginning of the match.

I too observed the Southfield tournament, and it was painful to watch three robots miss their shots. Even worse was when the balls were positioned next to the robots, and they simply drive away at the start of auto.

My opinion: If you can't shoot reliably, don't start with a ball.

[thmeans06]

Originally Posted by Jarren Harkema

The way I've interpreted the rule is if you don't want a ball, you don't have to have one. In fact I saw multiple matches where there were only one or two balls loaded at the beginning of the match.

I too observed the Southfield tournament, and it was painful to watch three robots miss their shots. Even worse was when the balls were positioned next to the robots, and they simply drive away at the start of auto.

My opinion: If you can't shoot reliably, don't start with a ball.

Yes... There was a lot of bad strategy going on! What about truss points??? SO many missed opportunities for points. A simple truss toss would have won the match. Speeding down the field to try to shoot a 10 point shot with 5 seconds left doesn't make sense when throwing it over the truss would have won the match as well.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by thmeans06

Yes... There was a lot of bad strategy going on! What about truss points??? SO many missed opportunities for points. A simple truss toss would have won the match. Speeding down the field to try to shoot a 10 point shot with 5 seconds left doesn't make sense when throwing it over the truss would have won the match as well.

isn't trussing just assist points? A truss doesn't get scored until the ball is placed in the goal from what I understand. Did I miss something in the game rules?

[Squeakypig]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

isn't trussing just assist points? A truss doesn't get scored until the ball is placed in the goal from what I understand. Did I miss something in the game rules?

Truss points and catch points are scored immediately, assist points are scored upon a successful ball scored into either the 1 or 10 point goal.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

isn't trussing just assist points? A truss doesn't get scored until the ball is placed in the goal from what I understand. Did I miss something in the game rules?

From section 3.1.4 of the game manual:

Points are awarded once per CYCLE for BALLS SCORED by ROBOTS in the GOALS, BALLS SCORED by ROBOTS over the TRUSS, and for each ROBOT CATCH and as each objective is achieved.

emphasis mine.

[otherguy]

And a specific response from Q&A:

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...d-catch-points

Q. [Section 3.1.4 Scoring] Must an alliance complete a cycle in order to receive Truss and Catch points?
A. No. TRUSS and CATCH points are awarded as they happen.

[RyanCahoon]

Originally Posted by thmeans06

If you are unable to score a ball in autonomous and neither of your alliance partners have a 2-ball autonomous, can you start the match with the ball off of the field completely? Below is the vague rule...

Applicable Q&A: Q379

Originally Posted by Q379

Q. If an ALLIANCE starts a MATCH with three ROBOTS in the white ZONE, can it start that match with fewer than 3 BALLS on the FIELD?
A. Yes.

[DjScribbles]

Q51 is also applicable here:

Q. [G5] At the start of Autonomous, 'bots in the white zone "may" be in contact with a ball. Does that mean that there is an option not to? If so, may the ball be placed elsewhere in the white zone? Or is it removed from the field? (Not clear from the rules.)

A. G5 requires that BALLS preloaded be touching the ROBOT. The "may" allows TEAMS to decide that they do not want to preload a BALL, in which case the BALL is removed from the FIELD. The only exception is for BALLS associated with ROBOTS that are not present for the MATCH or begin the MATCH in the GOALIE ZONE.