Secret Sauce: Shot to Human Player

[Ginger Power]

Please take this thread down they are giving away the secret!!! Joking obviously I really enjoyed watching your robot play. I knew this strategy would be viable. I'm just glad to see it implemented so well.

[Pi3th0n]

Honestly, the hardest part was convincing our alliance partners that cycle time was more important than points-per-cycle. I didn't feel like our robot was really showing off until Saturday when we were able to get in more than 4 cycles a match.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by Pi3th0n

Honestly, the hardest part was convincing our alliance partners that cycle time was more important than points-per-cycle. I didn't feel like our robot was really showing off until Saturday when we were able to get in more than 4 cycles a match.

If you guys or any other robot doing this strategy (I only know of 3 teams doing it including your team) gets paired with the top scorer, 1pt or 10pt doesn't matter, at a regional things will get crazy. You guys can get the ball from the pedestal to human player in under 10 seconds and the top scorer at a regional should be able to get the ball into a goal within 7-10 seconds regardless of defense. This means 21 or 30 pt cycles in under 20 seconds. This equates to between 147 and 210pts in teleop alone. Factor in a max auton and you are looking at almost 300pts in a match. This also allows for the third robot to play counter defense, defense, or if it's compatible with the top scorer it could add a quick 3rd assist but I don't see this happening until elims.

[marshall]

Originally Posted by Ginger Power

Please take this thread down they are giving away the secret!!! Joking obviously I really enjoyed watching your robot play. I knew this strategy would be viable. I'm just glad to see it implemented so well.

Well it's not much of a secret anymore. We don't think we'll see a lot of copycats because it is not that easy to design for. Your bot needs to be purpose built to pull this off from what we think. At the very least it takes a custom gearbox and a decent amount of brute force.

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by marshall

Well it's not much of a secret anymore. We don't think we'll see a lot of copycats because it is not that easy to design for. Your bot needs to be purpose built to pull this off from what we think. At the very least it takes a custom gearbox and a decent amount of brute force.

I definitely agree it will be very very uncommon and that you have to plan for this from the beginning. You don't necessarily need a custom gearbox (although it would definitely help). We are using a custom made ratcheting winch with 1 cim motor in a toughbox mini. We also have an acme lead screw which loosens our surgical tubing when our winch pulls the catapult down. The lead screw tensions the surgical tubing (allowing for a variable shot) to our desired shot length. We are hoping that at the max tension we are able to emulate your full court assist to the human player.

[stefanp]

Originally Posted by marshall

Well it's not much of a secret anymore. We don't think we'll see a lot of copycats because it is not that easy to design for. Your bot needs to be purpose built to pull this off from what we think. At the very least it takes a custom gearbox and a decent amount of brute force.

I think we have the range to make that kind of shot no problem. Maybe for catapults the have to be custom built but wheeled shooters can just up the speed. I'm interested in trying this out at our next regional! Thanks for the idea!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK8UGR3vpI

[Ginger Power]

Originally Posted by stefanp

I think we have the range to make that kind of shot no problem. Maybe for catapults the have to be custom built but wheeled shooters can just up the speed. I'm interested in trying this out at our next regional! Thanks for the idea!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK8UGR3vpI

It looks like you have the power for the shot which is awesome! The only problem I see for you guys when using this strategy at your regional is the low release point. If I'm a defensive robot on the opposing alliance and my scouting tells me that you are full court assisting I'm going to try to block you. The reason my team went with a catapult was that the release point could get close to 5 feet because of the ball rolling off the catapult as it fires. A high release point makes blocking the shot way more difficult if not impossible. If you watch the youtube video, towards the end you can here the human player (or person behind the camera) yell "try to block us!" or something like that. I think you guys can pull this strategy off. You will just need to compensate for the low release point by using counter defense or shooting while moving. Good luck at your regional!

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by marshall

Well it's not much of a secret anymore. We don't think we'll see a lot of copycats because it is not that easy to design for. Your bot needs to be purpose built to pull this off from what we think. At the very least it takes a custom gearbox and a decent amount of brute force.

I think your gearbox would be the least dependent part of the strategy; you seem to be using it only to build up stored energy in surgical tubing. What seems to be the real things that are purpose built and difficult to replicate include the height at which the shot exits and the length of the lever arm. Regardless, this is an effective strategy to get through with in qualification rounds, provided you have at least one other alliance partner who has a robot wit ha working drivebase and preferable herding mechanism, and for that partner to have a human player ready to effectively inbound.

[scaryone]

Very cool bot and interesting strategy. Wondering if risk of foul points factors in? At some of the competitions, fouls for reaching over were an issue. Did you guys find that the case at your event?

[marshall]

Originally Posted by scaryone

Very cool bot and interesting strategy. Wondering if risk of foul points factors in? At some of the competitions, fouls for reaching over were an issue. Did you guys find that the case at your event?

Not from our human player. He was well trained not to over reach for the ball and cross the barrier. He was one of the few who walked away with no fouls called on him at the event.

We did get a verbal warning from the head ref because we were attempting to shoot to another team's human player a couple of times and our HP couldn't get the shot aligned properly from the back so the ball went out of play. This was easily fixed though and we are now working on a way to train other team's human players.

Thanks for the compliments folks. We appreciate them.

[FrankJ]

It was a pleasure helping to prove your theory Sat. morning. (Q84). This game has done a good job of requiring alliance partners to work together to be successful.

[who716]

I find this strategy to be very viable because this way the ball is never on the ground bouncing around wasting time, the more time the ball is in the robot or in the hands of the human player the less is getting kicked around on the floor.

[nlj007]

Originally Posted by who716

I find this strategy to be very viable because this way the ball is never on the ground bouncing around wasting time, the more time the ball is in the robot or in the hands of the human player the less is getting kicked around on the floor.

That was our thought exactly when we chose this strategy; low cycle times were more important than huge point cycles.

[topgun]

So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

[pabeekm]

Originally Posted by topgun

So, why wasn't any of the defenders hitting you? The 900 human player was indicating that you needed to line up before shooting. Couldn't a defender have just rammed in and knocked the robot off enough to shut this down?

Defense turned out to not be a big problem. Because we were in the corner, we could only be hit periodically thanks to pinning rules. Even when we were hit out of alignment and couldn't readjust before the firing activated, the ball would only land a few feet away from our human player and either
a) it was out of bounds and he would receive it back within a few seconds
or
b) it landed on field in the general vicinity of the goals

Plus our drivetrain is built pretty tough, so knocking us out of alignment probably isn't worth what little delay it causes our cycles.