Week 1 Analysis

[xmaskid96]

I want to make sure I have this information correct to present to my team this week. I noticed teams were passing the ball over the truss to the human player to catch. If the human player catches it, does that count for a catch bonus? The rules hint at it, but are vague in a way and during the webcasts, it was kind of hard to notice the points being added due to the fast pace of the game.

[cmwilson13]

Originally Posted by xmaskid96

I want to make sure I have this information correct to present to my team this week. I noticed teams were passing the ball over the truss to the human player to catch. If the human player catches it, does that count for a catch bonus? The rules hint at it, but are vague in a way and during the webcasts, it was kind of hard to notice the points being added due to the fast pace of the game.

no must be a robot

[EricH]

Under the definition of CATCH, no, the human does not contribute any catch points.

"A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER."


However, having the ball go to the human player does help ensure that the ball stays in the alliance's control.

[mateoland]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

We had two catches in our last finals match. I think there was one other catch at Inland Empire.

399 newbie mentor here:

I am pretty sure what you saw was 399 catching their own ball. Sometime in the qual matches, we lobbed it over the truss and went under to recover our own by catching it.

This was my first chance to ever see a regional competition, and I was so glad we were matched up. Our strengths complemented each other. your repeatable throwing skill made it easy for our driver to recover the ball quickly. The two catches in a row was amazing! Our driver is really good and I figured it would happen at some point, but wasn't too sure if we could catch the line drive throws. The fact that both were "on the run" blew me away!

[Anteprefix]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

Great stream, the full-field view is the best for webcasts because I feel like I'm up in the stands, and I'm not going to miss anything. My only complaint was that the score on your in-match overlay was often different from the one on the projector screen. I'd like to see the official score. Other than that, you guys did a great job with it and I'd love to see it for more events.

About the difference in scores: Our system is separate from the FMS, so we have to enter in data manually, so sometime we make mistakes. This was especially true when we were entering data for elimination matches, since we were forced to view the matches from a location where we couldn't even see the blue alliance assist/hot goal indicator LEDs or low goal!

[Nick.kremer]

Originally Posted by mateoland

399 newbie mentor here:

I am pretty sure what you saw was 399 catching their own ball. Sometime in the qual matches, we lobbed it over the truss and went under to recover our own by catching it.

I'm 100% sure he's talking about 1678's over the truss pass to 399 in the finals (forget which match), there were two of them, and they were very exciting!

[Anteprefix]

Originally Posted by Nick.kremer

I'm 100% sure he's talking about 1678's over the truss pass to 399 in the finals (forget which match), there were two of them, and they were very exciting!

Actually, he is talking about one of the qualification matches where one team trussed to another and the receiving team activated their catapult just as the ball was about to enter their robot, causing the ball to exit the robot vertically and slowly bounce its way into the low goal. Since the receiving team actively manipulated the ball into being scored, the refs counted it as a catch.

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Nick.kremer

I'm 100% sure he's talking about 1678's over the truss pass to 399 in the finals (forget which match), there were two of them, and they were very exciting!

It was Final 2 at Inland Empire. This video starts right before the two catches happen. I was amazed.

[Zuelu562]

I wanted to bring this up because it became a weird situation on Friday at GSDE. Early in Friday, a good portion of the teams (10+) had still not finished inspection. The queueing staff (including myself) were under the impression that a human player could be sent, even if the robot had not been inspected, to avoid the team getting a red card and therefore, 0 points. We were told by Robot Inspection that this was not the case, as per T6:

T6
A Team is only permitted to participate in a Qualification or Elimination MATCH and receive Qualification Points if their ROBOT has passed Inspection. If it is discovered after the start of the MATCH that a ROBOT did not pass Inspection and the Team participated in the MATCH, the entire ALLIANCE receives a RED CARD for that MATCH.

Some more wish-wash later, and we were under the correct rule, and then everyone finished inspection .

Just remember! ASK YOUR ALLIANCE PARTNERS IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN INSPECTED!!!!

[Greg McKaskle]

I was at the Alamo regional helping the CSAs out. I will describe the common issues I saw, not to pick on the robots, but so that mentors and students can better prepare and recover when/if they occur.

As mentioned, it is a rough game and will uncover loose connections on a robot. I saw Anderson connectors disconnect, crimps to battery fail, ethernet cables pulled out, and digital ribbon cables come loose. Friction fits can only resist so much force. Fasteners, zip ties, and velcro are highly recommended to keep heavy components stationary and to keep connectors firmly attached.

Please trace radio power wires and check that it is wired as shown in R43 of the Robot manual. Late on Saturday, I was still seeing inventive ways of powering the radio. Most reboots I saw were not the cRIO, but the radio or entire robot. The log messages will indicate which devices rebooted during a match.

I saw more joystick issues than I expected. The DS doesn't know how many joysticks are supposed to be plugged in, so the LED on the left indicates zero or nonzero. The diagnostics screen and setup screens show individual joysticks. If your team connects a joystick during a match, they do not need to restart the DS, reboot the laptop, or reboot the robot. The procedure is to take hands off the joysticks, press F1, and resume play. If you press F1 with a joystick or gamepad off center, you are affecting the zero-calibration and may find that the robot is biased or spinning in circles. If this happens, follow the F1 procedure. Please make sure drivers are aware of this.

Please test your code using the practice mode of the DS. This sends the same commands to the robot as the field during a match. Some teams test auto and tele very well, but only in isolation. The transition between auto to tele happens once per match. It is important, so please test it.

Robot bumper rules, including color, are being enforced quite strictly. I understand that robots may be bypassed or estopped if the bumpers are sagging, broken, or molting.

I believe all of the fog-horns at Alamo were because a ball was reintroduced into the field improperly. They do not necessarily mean that the field is having technical difficulties.

Finally, if your robot stops moving on the field, there are a number of things to make note of to help identify and resolve the issue quickly.
* On the robot, observe the RSL and radio LEDs. You can often determine whether the entire robot lost power, can see the radio reboot, and can even see Anderson connectors with nothing connected to them.
* On the DS, observe the LEDs on the left side. Flip to the Diagnostics screen and observe the ping status LEDs and diagnostic messages. On the charts tab, you can see the realtime traces of CPU usage, battery level, and communications -- at least you can see the data for the time when the robot was connected.
* After the match you can review the charts data and messages using the Log File Viewer. It can be launched on the Charts tab, scroll to the latest match, typically at the bottom.
* Observe any dashboard or LCD message that the programmers may have put into the code -- a broken encoder, an impossible limit switch combo, a spinning gyro, etc.
* Remember what was taking place on the field when the issue happened. Were you pushing? Were you hit? Did the robot behave normally before the issue?

Once off the field, discuss the symptoms and observations. Determine some likely points of failure. Safely restore power to the robot, look at LEDs and cables. If a particular device lost power, tap/wiggle/tug the device and both ends of the power cable to see if you can cause it to happen again. Look for bare wire than may have shorted to the frame or another wire. Look for melted or pinched wiring insulation. Be sure to test sensors and actuators for damage. Most FRC code doesn't behave well with sensor failures. If you don't find the issue, ask for assistance.

When something happens to the robot, things can get intense. People may have lots of questions or theories. They may remind you again and again to hurry up and fix it. This doesn't only happen in FIRST. I hate to see robot failures like these happen, but watching a team effectively debug and correct issues is one of my favorite elements of FIRST. I hope this info helps.

Greg McKaskle

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Greg McKaskle

I was at the Alamo regional helping the CSAs out. I will describe the common issues I saw, not to pick on the robots, but so that mentors and students can better prepare and recover when/if they occur.

Thanks Greg....I printed your post, to share with our team!

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

Thanks Greg....I printed your post, to share with our team!

Ditto Jim! Thanks Greg!

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I prefer the fish eye view to the stood back midfield view.

Adam, you must have a stronger stomach than me! I usually get woozy with those fisheye views.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by mateoland

399 newbie mentor here:

I am pretty sure what you saw was 399 catching their own ball. Sometime in the qual matches, we lobbed it over the truss and went under to recover our own by catching it.

This was my first chance to ever see a regional competition, and I was so glad we were matched up. Our strengths complemented each other. your repeatable throwing skill made it easy for our driver to recover the ball quickly. The two catches in a row was amazing! Our driver is really good and I figured it would happen at some point, but wasn't too sure if we could catch the line drive throws. The fact that both were "on the run" blew me away!

399's catches in the finals match in traffic were amazing. I hadn't realized the opposing alliance scored only 1 teleop point and was playing 100% defense until I saw the replay, and 399 still caught 2 balls and we scored 2 60 point cycles. Thanks for being such a great alliance partner!

More generally, this game is very exciting when an alliance gets rolling like we did in the final few matches. With the truss shot, catch and long shot, the ball starts flying and you are watching more than one robot at a time. After watching the qualifying, we could see how really difficult it is to pull off complete teamwork. It must be what the GDC was envisioning.

[gabrielau23]

Doesn't the Human Player count for catch points? It says:

"A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER."

So a CATCH occurs when, after the ball is scored over the truss, the ball is either:
1. Caught by the same robot that threw it
2. Caught by a different robot on the same alliance
3. Caught by the Human Player.

Am I missing something here?