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Unread 04-03-2014, 11:28
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Re: Goalie Bots

I'm personally surprised to not see these goalies have tails and utilize the 20" extension. One of the worst things about a penalty shot in soccer is you have to stay on the line. In our case as long as your in contact with your carpet you could move much further into the playing field, thus cutting down the angles on the shot. If designed right, your blocker could be as far as 3 ft from the goalie line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
You can't block all three sides of the 1 point goal at the same time... Easily.

If you are blocking the front and top, not only is the side open, you also probably are out of the goalie zone and you're leaving the ten point wide open. If you block the side and top, you leave the front open as well as the section of the goal above the 1 point goal open.
I don't follow. Couldn't you just have a cover (like 3 sides of a cube), that you put over the goal. If the cover was 20" x 20" x 20", I don't think anyone would be scoring on that lower goal.
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Last edited by mwtidd : 04-03-2014 at 11:33.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 11:49
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by lineskier View Post
I don't follow. Couldn't you just have a cover (like 3 sides of a cube), that you put over the goal. If the cover was 20" x 20" x 20", I don't think anyone would be scoring on that lower goal.
Unless a robot was purpose built for this specific task, I do not expect this functionality to be seen at all this year. Not really a "just have a" mechanism. This does not change that it is impossible for a robot to block the 10 point goal above the 1 point goal.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 12:06
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
This does not change that it is impossible for a robot to block the 10 point goal above the 1 point goal.
That's also a near impossible shot to make if a goalie is blocking as far as they can over. That shot would have to be shot probably within an inch or two (someone else can do the math if they want) to make it without hitting the goalie or the side of the goal. Setting up that shot will take time, which achieves the goalie's point, to take up your time so that you can't do as many cycles.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 12:20
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Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexander.h View Post
I just saw your robot (it's pretty great!) Do you think we have the time to make a quick high goal blocker (similar to yours) until March 20? Thanks!


I think it would be possible to make one in that time with a little bit of hard work, it's a pretty simple set up with a little problem solving to make sure it's legal and stable. If you do get it done, please share, I'd love to see how it turns out. Eli2410 knows more about it though so he's the one to ask.

Last edited by discobrisco : 04-03-2014 at 12:25.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 12:27
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Re: Goalie Bots

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Originally Posted by discobrisco View Post
I think it would be possible to make one in that time with a little bit of hard work, it's a pretty simple set up with a little problem solving to make sure it's legal and stable. If you do get it done, please share, I'd love to see how it turns out.
I'd say it depends a lot on how precise you can machine parts, how much time to work you have, how much weight you have to spare, and how quickly you can get supplies. If one of these four factors is on the bad end, I don't see it happening. If all of these factors are in your favor, you may be able to do this.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 13:19
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmrnpizzo14 View Post
After watching some of the competitions from over the weekend I'm much less skeptical of the goalie strategy and I actually think that this could be fairly viable now. Just from watching Southfield and 4854 (I think, my apologies if the number is wrong) a goalie caused serious havoc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GxroA_wcIo (Southfield QF1-1)

Are there any teams out there that are dedicated goalies or are considering to have a goalie strategy in their back pocket? Particularly any auton goalies that are willing to share their secrets.
As one of the group that decided to pick 4854 for our alliance, we where hoping to get a block during Auto, but no luck. Although they did get close. More time and thoughts we might have been able to get blocks during autonomous. Time to better calibrate I think we could have had them blocking shots. If we could it could have really swung the matches.

Most of the time they had good driving to shut down 33. We had watched them in multiple matches drive very well and shut down a team and even alliance. With one ball out there, if a driver plays well it can really slow down an alliance. Its unfortunate for us in those matches that both us and alliance partners died a few times. I think a lot of people where surprised by the pick (Ranked 37 of 40) but after watching realized why we made the pick.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 13:31
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
This does not change that it is impossible for a robot to block the 10 point goal above the 1 point goal.
Can't the 6" cylindrical projection upwards be on the 20" horizontal projection, thus covering the area above the 1 pt goal?
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Unread 04-03-2014, 13:33
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur View Post
Can't the 6" cylindrical projection upwards be on the 20" horizontal projection, thus covering the area above the 1 pt goal?
I don't see why not, but that would be a complex mechanism to make, and as far as I know no one has.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 15:19
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by eli2410 View Post
That's also a near impossible shot to make if a goalie is blocking as far as they can over. That shot would have to be shot probably within an inch or two (someone else can do the math if they want) to make it without hitting the goalie or the side of the goal. Setting up that shot will take time, which achieves the goalie's point, to take up your time so that you can't do as many cycles.
Almost impossible, what are you taking about? Unless the goalie is extending outward 20 inches AND the extension is nearly 60 inches tall this shot isn't being blocked. And at this point, we are talking about a hypothetical robot with multiple complex purpose built appendages. This robot doesn't exist. Not that it couldn't, I guess, but it's a huge investment, not trivial.

An extension above 60 inches cannot be there as I believe the 1 point goal is not the goalie zone. Clever, but nope.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 15:35
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
An extension above 60 inches cannot be there as I believe the 1 point goal is not the goalie zone. Clever, but nope.
If the "there" in that sentence is refereing to over the one point goal than I don't see how the rules prohibit that.

Quote:
G23
If a ROBOT is in contact with carpet in its GOALIE ZONE, and for only one ROBOT per ALLIANCE at a time, there is no height restriction; however, any extension or combination of extensions above 5 ft. may not extend beyond a vertical cylinder with a 6 in. diameter (see examples in Figure 3-5).

Violation: FOUL. If continuous or repeated violations, TECHNICAL FOUL.
As long as a robot is touching the carpet in the goalie zone their 6" diameter blocker can be anywhere they can legally reach.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 15:35
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by lineskier View Post
I don't follow. Couldn't you just have a cover (like 3 sides of a cube), that you put over the goal. If the cover was 20" x 20" x 20", I don't think anyone would be scoring on that lower goal.
Not without getting a 50 point penalty for possessing their opponents ball per Q&A 170

Q170

Q. Regarding possession of opposing alliance's ball: If a robot is attempting to score a 1-pt goal, if an appendage of a defending robot either a) holds the ball from dropping into the top of the goal or b) causes the ball to be "pinned" as it's pushed in the front goal, would it be illegal possession?

A. Yes.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 16:28
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Re: Goalie Bots

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Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV View Post
As long as a robot is touching the carpet in the goalie zone their 6" diameter blocker can be anywhere they can legally reach.
That's what I got from it too. The more interesting challenge is designing a mechanism that can a) extend 20 inches past the frame perimeter, and b) withstand repeated impacts of the ball at the very extreme of 20 inches out and probably at least 40 inches up.

When we were considering a pure goalie, we wanted to exploit the fact that the rules actually don't impose any height restriction at the beginning of the match, so if you start in the goalie zone, the blocking post doesn't even need to be retractable, which means the vertical blocker can be pretty strong. We also designed a two-way horizontal linear elevator based on 118's 2011 robot, which would have easily been able to take the impact of a ball. However, the weakness we encountered was that the goalpost acted like a wrench, with a huge mechanical advantage.



We stopped working on it around then because the mentors wanted to build a very different robot, but by then we had figured out that a blocker that could extend over the low goal is a major feature, and would mostly dictate the rest of the design.

tl;dr In my opinion, extending over the low goal to block the ends of the high goal is a difficult feature to implement unless the entire robot is built around it [and even then, it wouldn't be easy].

EDIT: Ooops, I forgot to mention: team 1710 executed this beautifully, and because the axis of the hinge is perpendicular to the torque above, they can easily withstand the impact of a shot. Bravo to team 1710!

Last edited by ohrly? : 04-03-2014 at 16:49.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 16:39
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Re: Goalie Bots

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Almost impossible, what are you taking about? Unless the goalie is extending outward 20 inches AND the extension is nearly 60 inches tall this shot isn't being blocked. And at this point, we are talking about a hypothetical robot with multiple complex purpose built appendages. This robot doesn't exist. Not that it couldn't, I guess, but it's a huge investment, not trivial.
But it does.
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Unread 04-03-2014, 17:00
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Almost impossible, what are you taking about? Unless the goalie is extending outward 20 inches AND the extension is nearly 60 inches tall this shot isn't being blocked. And at this point, we are talking about a hypothetical robot with multiple complex purpose built appendages. This robot doesn't exist. Not that it couldn't, I guess, but it's a huge investment, not trivial.

An extension above 60 inches cannot be there as I believe the 1 point goal is not the goalie zone. Clever, but nope.
I want to believe.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/39587

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Unread 04-03-2014, 17:16
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Re: Goalie Bots

Quote:
Originally Posted by pntbll1313 View Post
Not without getting a 50 point penalty for possessing their opponents ball per Q&A 170

Q170

Q. Regarding possession of opposing alliance's ball: If a robot is attempting to score a 1-pt goal, if an appendage of a defending robot either a) holds the ball from dropping into the top of the goal or b) causes the ball to be "pinned" as it's pushed in the front goal, would it be illegal possession?

A. Yes.
You could still cover the "front" and "side" entrances to the low goal, and I think that very few robots are well equipped to shoot the ball into the top of the low goal.
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