End Safety Theater

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by Carol

Since one of the goals of FIRST is to prepare students for STEM careers, we should we demonstrating the standard behaviors expected from someone working in industry. Gloves are the standard practice in industry; therefore we should make them the standard practice in FIRST. Safety glasses (true safety glasses, ANSI standard) are the standard practice in industry. MSDS sheets are the standard practice in industry. Whether you think you are generally safe or not isn't the point; at some point these practices will save someone from harm.

On another note, the biggest hazard in picking up the robot is how most students bend from the waist to pick it up. My back muscles cringe every time I see that. They may not feel the pain from the resultant damage at the age of 16, but when they are older.........

OSHA doesn't require gloves for lifting.

From OSHA Safety Guidelines - "Hand protection is required when employee's hands are exposed to hazards such as those from skin absorption of harmful substances; severe cuts or lacerations; severe abrasions; punctures; chemical burns; thermal burns; and harmful temperature extremes."

If you have any of those situations present on your robot, you aren't competing because you didn't pass inspection.

If you are cleaning up a split battery, wear chemical gloves. For broken glass, wear puncture resistant gloves. I will not wear gloves when I help load our robot onto the field because they are more of a hazard than they are helpful. Again, establish a specific protocol for loading and unloading your robot. Your protocol may involve gloves. My students are welcome to wear gloves. I will not because I want to be able to feel what I am doing and reduce the risk of a glove catching on something unintended.

[Mr. Van]

Originally Posted by hzdbl5

We have occasionally put up a silly safety goggles poster, but our work focuses on ensuring we have our MSDS in order, making first aid kits and fire extinguishers readily available in the pit areas, having all of the students and mentors on our team certified in first aid, etc. We also actively encourage teams that don't have a safety program in place and are happy to share our materials with them.

This is being safe and sharing your practices. This should be encouraged. It is not what I (and others) mean by "Safety Theater". Thank you and please continue to do this!

Originally Posted by hzdbl5

And for the record, we lost the safety award at one event last year when one of the safety judges deliberately stepped in front of our drive team who was transporting our robot and was upset when our kids simply said, "excuse us, please" rather than shouting "ROBOT!".

This is clearly part of the problem. I wonder if the safety inspector would have been satisfied if you yelled "Move you idiot!" (which is effectively the same thing).

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by hzdbl5

And for the record, we lost the safety award at one event last year when one of the safety judges deliberately stepped in front of our drive team who was transporting our robot and was upset when our kids simply said, "excuse us, please" rather than shouting "ROBOT!".

Yeah, unfortunately that was happening at a few events in Michigan a couple years ago. The majority of the key volunteers find the shouting of "Robot!" obnoxious though. At MSC last year, I asked the Safety People to kindly ask teams to not shout that and instead say, "Excuse me." They agreed that that was best, and it wasn't an issue the rest of the weekend. And, unsurprisingly, no one was run over by a robot.

I think the OP is awesome for creating this thread!
NO ONE is suggesting that safety isn't important. Safety is obviously an important topic that all teams need to have policies for. That said, I could do with less Safety Theater.

An example of Safety Theater:
A couple years ago, a team won the Safety Award for how they carried their robot with two poles sticking through their machine, so students wouldn't hurt their hands by gripping a pinching section in the robot. Sure, the students carrying the robot were safer....but not the people around them who kept getting hit with the poles extended from the robot as they walked by or turned around. Ouch.

Safety: an essential aspect of every FIRST, especially FRC, team.

Safety Theater: doing something JUST to win the Safety Award.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

Safety: an essential aspect of every FIRST, especially FRC, team.

Safety Theater: doing something JUST to win the Safety Award.

I've seen this conversation happen a few times on CD and this hits the nail on the head. I like the idea that we as a community should focus on safety more. I don't like that it is incentivized with an award. This is just asking for teams to go "above and beyond".

Make safety a requirement, not an incentive, and the problem will go away.

EDIT: The "problem" in question is people doing things like posting flyers and screaming robot. I'm still not quite sure what do to about overzealous safety advisors.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

I've seen this conversation happen a few times on CD and this hits the nail on the head. I like the idea that we as a community should focus on safety more. I don't like that it is incentivized with an award. This is just asking for teams to go "above and beyond".

Make safety a requirement, not an incentive, and the problem will go away.

EDIT: The "problem" in question is people doing things like posting flyers and screaming robot. I'm still not quite sure what do to about overzealous safety advisors.

Totally agree.

FYI, at last year's championship I saw a safety advisor tell students to yell "ROBOT" and I told him that there are a lot of people who disagree with that practice and briefly explained why. I did it as politely as possible and then thanked him for volunteering as a safety advisor. I felt a little sheepish confronting him about it, but I think it would be a good thing if people tactfully opened up that conversation when they see people encouraging counterproductive and annoying practices.

Another anecdote: once our team attended an event with a team that engaged in a variety of safety theater practices, and as it happened, their drive team caused a dangerous incident in the practice field that was probably the most unsafe thing that happened at the whole event. Then they naturally won the safety award. I think this is an example of why safety theater should not be rewarded, and why the incentive structure that currently exists doesn't necessarily produce the results that we want it to.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

I'm still not quite sure what do to about overzealous safety advisors.

Yeah, it's a tricky one. I think Volunteer Coordinators can talk to them before the event starts, and that might make it better.

Just like the bans of the shouting of robot and seat saving epidemic, it all starts with AWARENESS!

Lets all change our social media pictures to some significant image for a month.

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

I'm still not quite sure what do to about overzealous safety advisors.

Yeah, last year my team was working on creating all new bumpers in our pit and a Safety Advisor came by and told them, "You really need to be wearing gloves when using that circular saw." They looked at him and said, "Gloves are NOT going to stop the blade."

Another year we had a properly insulated junction box on our pit structure, and the inspector made us cut all power from our structure because "he couldn't see inside the junction box to ensure it was properly insulated." On that one I can't blame the safety inspector, but it was a big inconvenience for us.

-Danny

[connor.worley]

The only thing that bothers me is when a team thinks they're allowed to run me over with their cart because they've been yelling robot.

[OZ_341]

I do agree with the original sentiment of the OP.
And as a counterpoint there is also nothing wrong with a little bit of awareness via modest posters and the like.

But whenever I think of Safety Theater, I am reminded of an event where a team had a giant mascot wearing safety glasses and how this mascot kept tripping over people and getting in everyone's way. It was the definition of irony and completely unsafe.

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

Yeah, last year my team was working on creating all new bumpers in our pit and a Safety Advisor came by and told them, "You really need to be wearing gloves when using that circular saw."

This is the classic and most worrisome example of safety advisors who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about and give out really really really bad advice (which teams are compelled to follow).

Gloves and rotary tools just don't mix (or, rather, they mix far too easily)!

[JVN]

Can anyone provide insight on how Safety Advisors are appointed / selected / whatever?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by JVN

Can anyone provide insight on how Safety Advisors are appointed / selected / whatever?

As far as I know, they are assigned by the VC.

I've had a buddy of mine (who would admit he was completely and thoroughly unqualified) been assigned.

A father on our team who is an industrial expert in safety (it's his job), volunteered with his son as a safety advisor at two events last year and they commented that the advisors working aside them were the biggest idiots they'd ever encountered in terms of safety. Very into safety theatre, ignorant to actual safety.

[Johnny_5]

What I see as safety theater is what our team witnessed and had to deal with at our regional last year.

There was a team there that had people stationed all over the pits, essentially acting as "hall monitors" or "robot chaperones." When robots were coming down the hallway, they would stop all human traffic and make them wait until robots had finished coming through, all while yelling robot to those who ignored them.

This works great in theory. But there are incidents that can arise in which by halting human traffic would be a major impediment to people. For instance, one of the students on my team was held up in trying to go back to our pit to get a tool to fix an alliance members robot before the match started. Needless to say he did not make it or return in time.

I don't believe they won the safety award, which leads me to believe that maybe the judges disliked it as much as we did.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

As far as I know, they are assigned by the VC.

I've had a buddy of mine (who would admit he was completely and thoroughly unqualified) been assigned.

A father on our team who is an industrial expert in safety (it's his job), volunteered with his son as a safety advisor at two events last year and they commented that the advisors working aside them were the biggest idiots they'd ever encountered in terms of safety. Very into safety theatre, ignorant to actual safety.

The apparent lack of care assigning such a (hopefully) important position worries me. Yes, teams should strive to always keep safety best practices in mind, but having good role models at competitions (especially for lower income teams) seems like it should be a higher priority.

Then again, I'm sure being a VC is hard enough without handpicking safety advisors.

[BBray_T1296]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

the advisors working aside them were the biggest idiots they'd ever encountered in terms of safety.

They couldn't have been "hopping a 20' A-frame ladder across the ground in the pits from the top rung" stupid.

Saw some guy (I think he worked for the convention center) putting up a banner do this in the aisle next to our pit last year in Dallas.

Safety theatre is quite annoying to everyone as well. Sure you get a trophy but that doesn't mean people don't think you are annoying