Game Manual - Team UPDATE - 2014-03-04

[Robotmmm]

These changes are a good start but I was hoping for something to be done about the pedestals and overwhelming pressure on the refs. Anyone who has competed week one knows that there are still major issues remaining.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

Still no better ball sizing standards, balls still take 10 years to return to play if they leave the field, and refs still have way too much on their plate.

I think they have a ways to go still, but its progress.

None of those really require rule changes, though. It would still be nice to see them addressed somehow, but this may not be the place to do it.

Originally Posted by Robotmmm

These changes are a good start but I was hoping for something to be done about the pedestals and overwhelming pressure on the refs. Anyone who has competed week one knows that there are still major issues remaining.

Things have been done. However, they do not effect the rules and thus are not included in the rule updates. That's all I'll say right now.

[Chris is me]

This is barely a start. I have no idea what "adjacent" means, and the manual doesn't define it. How far away is far enough away?

Not to mention this rule only gives human players three more inches. Referees, already busy tracking scoring, possession, penalties, etc. are going to need eagle eyes to get an idea of if this rule is broken.

The contact inside bumper zone rules are barely changed. It's a big improvement, yes, but it still doesn't make it okay to go after a ball that a defender is keeping from you.

No fixes to referees being overworked. No fixes to the pedestal not lighting up (you should be able to get a ball in the case of the pedestal not working). No stated fixes to field reset returning balls too slowly. No fixes to other fundamental game design flaws. I'm not impressed.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

No fixes to referees being overworked.

As per what Tyler said, and I can vouch for him, this has been worked on, but won't be reflected in the rules since it's not regulated there.

[JagCode]

What a shame this wasn't employed last week. My team was plagued by balls bouncing off the pipes, some of which lost us games.

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Gregor

This update should fix a lot of the week 1 issues, lets hope they also fixed the behind the scenes FMS problems.

Indeed they did, much more than I expected them to be able to do in less than a week. I am very satisfied by the changes they made for Scorekeepers in Week 2, I am looking forward to Arkansas this week!

-Danny

[IndySam]

Scorekeeper , ref and software changes would not be reflected in an update, that is not what they are for.

I would hope that a blog would be upcoming to help explain what other changes would have been made on these points.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

This is barely a start. I have no idea what "adjacent" means, and the manual doesn't define it. How far away is far enough away?

Not to mention this rule only gives human players three more inches. Referees, already busy tracking scoring, possession, penalties, etc. are going to need eagle eyes to get an idea of if this rule is broken.

The contact inside bumper zone rules are barely changed. It's a big improvement, yes, but it still doesn't make it okay to go after a ball that a defender is keeping from you.

No fixes to referees being overworked. No fixes to the pedestal not lighting up (you should be able to get a ball in the case of the pedestal not working). No stated fixes to field reset returning balls too slowly. No fixes to other fundamental game design flaws. I'm not impressed.

Same here. I'm not particularly impressed.

G40 fouls need to be reduced. What they did in this update is not a solution.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Scorekeeper , ref and software changes would not be reflected in an update, that is not what they are for.

I would hope that a blog would be upcoming to help explain what other changes would have been made on these points.

Exactly. Any hour now I am going to click on over to the home page and see a new post by Hallry linking to an FRC Blog that makes everything better.

[Electronica1]

I just realized the change to G40 does not really change anything, the only time you would cross the line is when you are tossing it to your robot, which would be adjacent to the station...

Or am I just reading this wrong?

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by Electronica1

I just realized the change to G40 does not really change anything, the only time you would cross the line is when you are tossing it to your robot, which would be adjacent to the station...

Or am I just reading this wrong?

Its my understanding that you can extend past the tape as long as there is no robot extending past the edge of the field. I could be completely wrong though.

[Justin Shelley]

So pretty much, keep your human players out of the field area because this G40 penalty will still kill teams.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

This is barely a start. I have no idea what "adjacent" means, and the manual doesn't define it. How far away is far enough away?

After looking at it a while, I think I figured it out:

During the MATCH, TEAMS may not extend any body part

1. in to a space defined by the Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY ZONE, and the GUARDRAIL that is either occupied by a ROBOT or adjacent to such a space occupied by a ROBOT
or,
2. beyond the GUARDRAIL at any time.

You have to look at the first part piece by piece.

in to a space defined by the Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY ZONE, and the GUARDRAIL

Look at the top down pictures they show. Imagine every Human Player Barrier Bracket, SAFETY ZONE (edge), and GUARDRAIL as a line. Each rectangle those lines make is a "space defined by the Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY ZONE, and the GUARDRAIL". Keep in mind that the HP side of the safety zone is NOT one of these areas. It's already the SAFETY ZONE. If I count correctly, there are 7 of these "areas" down each side of the field. 4 in front of HP stations and 1 between each.

that is either occupied by a ROBOT or adjacent to such a space occupied by a ROBOT

If the rectangle your HP is in also has the robot in it, that is NOT OK. Picture one shows a HP hand and robot appendage in one area defined by the BARRIER, SAFETY ZONE (edge), and 2 Human Player Barrier Brackets. Picture 3 shows the same situation in a different area.

If the rectangle your HP is in is adjacent to a rectangle the robot is in, that is NOT OK. Picture two shows the HP hand in an area defined by the BARRIER, SAFETY ZONE edge, and 2 Human Player Barrier Brackets. The robot appendage is in a SEPARATE area defined by the BARRIER, SAFETY ZONE edge, and 2 Human Player Barrier Brackets, but these two areas are ADJACENT.

If your HP is not in any of these rectangles, you are always OK given the robot is not breaking any rules. this is shown in picture 4.

If the rectangle your HP is in and the rectangle the robot is in are NOT adjacent, you are OK. This is shown in the 5th picture.

EDIT: I thought of an easy way to explain it. If the robot is over the GUARDRAIL, it must be as far away as the next HP station for your HP to cross the SAFETY ZONE edge.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by JosephC

Its my understanding that you can extend past the tape as long as there is no robot extending past the edge of the field. I could be completely wrong though.

I interpreted it the same way. Not sure what human player would go over the field when no robot was around anyways. Train your human players.