Game Manual - Team UPDATE - 2014-03-04

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The issue is what defines "adjacent"? Hanging over the guardrail? Touching the guardrail? A foot away? Three feet? In the same zone?

Check out my post earlier in the thread, I sussed out a definition that seems to fit the wording and the pictures. I think that's all we have to go on at this point

I agree it could have been written "better" but I am of the belief that it is cleanly explained in the text and pictures.

[ToddF]

Once upon a time, the edge of the field was the inviolable barrier. Robots that crossed it got technical fouls. Players who crossed it go technical fouls. Everything was clearly defined, and the barrier was clear.

Week 0 events revealed that many robots were crossing the edge of the field with their appendages, and big foul points resulted. The GDC then reduced the penalty for crossing the field boundary to a regular foul, and came up with a new inviolable barrier: the boundary of the safety zone. As we saw in the week 1 events, resulted in whole bunch of penalties. This was primarily due to the face that human players can't easily judge where the tape line is.

The new rule change keeps the same graduated level of penalties for robots, foul for crossing the field barrier and technical foul for crossing the safety zone boundary. But it moves the barrier for the human players back to the edge of the field, EXCEPT when there is a robot already sticking into the safety zone.

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by ToddF

Once upon a time, the edge of the field was the inviolable barrier. Robots that crossed it got technical fouls. Players who crossed it go technical fouls. Everything was clearly defined, and the barrier was clear.

Counterexample: 2005



EDIT: nevermind, you must be talking about this year.

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The issue is what defines "adjacent"? Hanging over the guardrail? Touching the guardrail? A foot away? Three feet? In the same zone?

Per this official image from the FRC Manual. Adjacent would be the space between the two human player barriers. If a ROBOT is in the SAFETY ZONE in either of those two areas, the HUMAN PLAYER cannot extend into the safety zone.

However, it is still a FOUL if a ROBOT to intentionally extends into the SAFETY ZONE anywhere on the field.

[Christopher149]

It's not provided in the diagram, but would this be okay? (I'm reasonably sure from my reading that it is)



Here, the robot is entirely in the field, and the human player is in the safety zone but not in the field.

[maths222]

Originally Posted by Christopher149

It's not provided in the diagram, but would this be okay? (I'm reasonably sure from my reading that it is)



Here, the robot is entirely in the field, and the human player is in the safety zone but not in the field.

That should be OK, since the robot is fully within the field perimeter.

[martin417]

Or this? I think any reasonable person would say that the robot is "adjacent" to the barrier...

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

It took a little analysis but the new rule does help

First and the biggest thing.... is that UNLESS a robot is reaching over the side of the field.... a human player can use the entire zone up to the field edge. You can't reach in at any time but you can extend right up to it.

The limitation occurs when you have an adjacent robot that is REACHING OVER the side line. THEN if the robot is close you cannot enter the Safety Zone.

This means that if your robot is sitting in front of you and NOT extended outside the field you can reach up to the side line (but not onto the field)

This is pretty important, basically the SAFETY ZONE only comes into play when a robot is hanging outside of the field. It basically goes back to the way the rules were originally written and adds that, if a robot reaches outside the field WITHOUT incurring a penalty (specifically stated as something you should not do) you can no longer reach up to the GUARDRAIL. In that case, you have to obey the SAFETY ZONE.

[maths222]

Originally Posted by martin417

Or this? I think any reasonable person would say that the robot is "adjacent" to the barrier...

Again, OK since only one thing (the human player) is in the safety zone.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by martin417

Or this? I think any reasonable person would say that the robot is "adjacent" to the barrier...

Pretty sure that, YES, that is now legal. Because that adjacent space is not defined by "Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY ZONE, and the GUARDRAIL", it does not count.

A violation only occurs if a robot occupies and adjacent space that is outside of the field (ie. as defined above)

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by martin417

Or this? I think any reasonable person would say that the robot is "adjacent" to the barrier...

"Adjacent" would apply to the zone the robot is currently not in, not the robot.

[Jake177]

If you call the "space defined by the Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY Zone, and the GUARDRAIL" the BUFFER ZONE, I think the new G40 wording becomes a little easier to understand.

My Version:
BUFFER ZONE - The space defined by the Human Player Barrier Brackets, the SAFETY Zone, and the GUARDRAIL

During the MATCH, TEAMS may not extend any body part

1) in to a BUFFER ZONE that is:

A) occupied by a ROBOT
or
B) adjacent to a BUFFER ZONE occupied by a ROBOT.

or

2) beyond the GUARDRAIL at any time.

VIOLATION: TECHNICAL FOUL

This is just my personal interpretation. I believe it maintains the intent of the rule.

[Rynocorn]

When reading through the manual on kickoff day, our team strongly considered building "flaps" to extend outward and assist in catching the ball but we ended up deciding not to pursue it a strong part because of the penalty for extending outside the field. Now that this is changed, we are going to attatch a blocker/catcher because we do not have to worry as much about this any more. A little unfortunate for us as we could have worked on it during the season seeing as we thought it through but it's all good!!

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Rynocorn

When reading through the manual on kickoff day, our team strongly considered building "flaps" to extend outward and assist in catching the ball but we ended up deciding not to pursue it a strong part because of the penalty for extending outside the field. Now that this is changed, we are going to attatch a blocker/catcher because we do not have to worry as much about this any more. A little unfortunate for us as we could have worked on it during the season seeing as we thought it through but it's all good!!

If I understand correctly, it is still against the rules to intentionally extend outside the field. The human player penalty just changes if it occurs inadvertently.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

If I understand correctly, it is still against the rules to intentionally extend outside the field. The human player penalty just changes if it occurs inadvertently.

Yep, that's a G21 violation. Do it once and it's a foul. Make a habit of it, that a technical. Touch anything outside, and that's a red card and disable.