Disappointing Game

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Gregor

That's because it does...

If you're expecting stellar, high level gameplay with no field issues or game updates needed, at a week 1 event, you need to step back.

I've been pretty vocal about my dislike for the game, but this thread is a bit much.

And when that week 1 event is the only one within 5,000 miles, maybe they don't think that way... Not that I agree entirely with this thread, but saying "it's only week 1!" is not an excuse.

[Jack_poldon]

Originally Posted by Kafri2630

It's great, but I guess you had a good robot against three robots that wasn't in the same level.
it is possible to win 1 VS 3 or 2 VS 3, but you do need to be much better than the other teams or they should have problems because the game score is based about 3 robots on the field.

In fact, the three robots against 1310 were all good teams (two of whom played in the final). It's not all about the robots on the field, that's only about 30% of the game. The rest is all strategy and if you have a good strategy for a match you'll always have a chance to win.

[Kafri2630]

Originally Posted by Jack_poldon

In fact, the three robots against 1310 were all good teams (two of whom played in the final). It's not all about the robots on the field, that's only about 30% of the game. The rest is all strategy and if you have a good strategy for a match you'll always have a chance to win.

I think my teams strategy is one of the strong parts, but I'll put it away for a seconed.

So we're saying strategy is 70% of the game, well what if the other allaince also has good startegy? they have more tools, they have more options for a good startegy.
if strategy is 70% of the game, why do we fight so much on building a good robot?

Please, I was not ranked bad(4th) and personaly I don't think we desreved winning,
but this year I saw too many teams that gave everything they had for much more than 45 days and lost their chances because of bad luck with no other opportunity to show what they've made.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Kafri2630

So we're saying strategy is 70% of the game, well what if the other allaince also has good startegy? they have more tools, they have more options for a good startegy.
if strategy is 70% of the game, why do we fight so much on building a good robot?

Is this specific to Aerial Assist?

[Kafri2630]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Is this specific to Aerial Assist?

Yes, in my opinion in other games it were more balanced,
If a robot don't show up you lost the points he can does or the defence he can make or any kind of other help,
This year if a robot don't show up, or more common, don't function well, you don't only lose his help, you lose the main way to get points.

I also think startegy matters, but I do not agree startegy can ignore a missing robot in this game as it could in others.

[PayneTrain]

israel pls

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Kafri2630

Yes, in my opinion in other games it were more balanced,
If a robot don't show up you lost the points he can does or the defence he can make or any kind of other help,
This year if a robot don't show up, or more common, don't function well, you don't only lose his help, you lose the main way to get points.

I also think startegy matters, but I do not agree startegy can ignore a missing robot in this game as it could in others.

Do you know what happened in 2009 if an alliance partner didn't show up?

[Max Boord]

You can not determine how good/ bad a game is by looking at week 1 events. This is especially true for a game that was broken for week 1 but is already hugely improved with the G40, G28 and high goal updates. As a person who has seen 13 different FRC competitions play out I can confidently say there have been WAY worse games:
2002: The choke hold strategy.
2003: Who really stacked to win other than 67?
2009: Over half the points where scored by human players.
2010: Human player fouls worse than this year.
2011: OP minibots.
2012: Co-Op bridge ruined rankings.
Wait for the week 3 regionals to make that call. Trust me it will improve. If there is a rule change, field change, or FMS update that needs to happen it will.
Just my $0.02.

I leave you with this video from 2002. if you still think this game is flawed then i give up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM

[Kafri2630]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Do you know what happened in 2009 if an alliance partner didn't show up?

No, I don't.

It's 00:23 A.M. and the competition was just over, so I would like to resay the main thing I wanted to say before sleeping,
Being disappointed is fine and mabye the game will show us some awasome things in the next weeks, but the disappointment in here is big because it was week 1 and we have no other opportunity.

Originally Posted by Max Boord

You can not determine how good/ bad a game is by looking at week 1 events. This is especially true for a game that was broken for week 1 but is already hugely improved with the G40, G28 and high goal updates. As a person who has seen 13 different FRC competitions play out I can confidently say there have been WAY worse games:
2002: The choke hold strategy.
2003: Who really stacked to win other than 67?
2009: Over half the points where scored by human players.
2010: Human player fouls worse than this year.
2011: OP minibots.
2012: Co-Op bridge ruined rankings.
Wait for the week 3 regionals to make that call. Trust me it will improve. If there is a rule change, field change, or FMS update that needs to happen it will.
Just my $0.02.

I leave you with this video from 2002. if you still think this game is flawed then i give up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM

I wish I could wait for week 3, the competition ended for me today and even the update of the rules didn't came fast enough to help.

[Cam877]

While I do agree with you that the game has a few frustrating glitches, I like aerial assist. I do admit, being a scout at a district event in quals got boring after a while, but as soon as the good teams hit the field, the gym was lit up with excitement. And once elims hit, forget about it. Most exciting elims i will probably ever see. Not once was there a blowout. Even alliances 8 and 7 gave 1 and 2 some huge problems(trust me, my team was on alliance 2). Our quarterfinal match was crazy. We had won the first game, they the second(because we lost comm). The third match they won, but because a pedestal glitch hurt our alliance greatly, there was a replay. We then tied the replay, and we won because tiebreaker rules said that the team with the most assist points would win. At that point, I was informed by the sound guy at the place that the gym hit 105 decibels. Absolutely wild. Unfortunately, this is where the fouls come in. The semis match that we were in, we lost the first one for comm issues, won the second because they got a technical(we would have won anyway). Then we lost the third because we got a technical AND a regular. I don't know if many other teams are having trouble, but G12 was a killer at our event. Everyone is talking about G40, but in my opinion G12 is worse. Seriously though, mount olive district event was a ton of fun. Big thanks to our alliance partners, 1923 and 219! You guys were great and I hope we can play together again at MAR champs. And congrats to teams 75, 56, and 2577 for winning the event. We had one crazy semis match! So in conclusion, I have to say I disagree about the disappointing game. To me, the defense is exciting, and the assists just add a whole new layer of strategy to the game. If you couldn't tell from my horribly long explanation, I love aerial assist, as can't wait until our next event, Chestnut hill.

[BHS_STopping]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sheridan

Defense is what makes this game exciting to me. The catch plays by 1678 and 399 were incredible because both of their robots were heavily defended. Good defense will force offensive bots to get creative with their strategies and execution. For example I think we will start to see teams start to pass out of defense instead of trying to carry the ball across the field by themselves. Who knows, we might see teams pass to each other in the same zone just to get around a good defensive bot.

Edit: here is the match I mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhY_p3qhSkY
The first catch cycle starts at 1:20 and the second catch cycle is right after the first

Awesome. This is exactly how the game is meant to be played.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Kafri2630

No, I don't.

I'll fill you in: Your opponent got 1 trailer sitting right in front of one of their human players. As I recall, that was a virtually guaranteed 20+ point advantage for them. That's the equivalent of a single Foul in this year's game--but scores were higher. In other words, you started out with one Foul per robot missing. Not a great game.



So... when is Israel going to try to adopt some of the district model? Or have a 2nd regional? Seems like every couple of years someone's complaining that their one-and-only chance at qualification for Championship is gone, and the game wasn't played right at that event. To me, that's kind of a sign that maybe you guys could use a second event, even if it is just the same teams again.

[TikiTech]

Originally Posted by Kafri2630

One other problem you guys don't see as Yarden sees is that an israeli team can participate in one regional, we only have one regional in here and the amount of money you need for another regional with a flight to America is huge and almost not possible, it only happend once in the last 10 years.
And also the israeli regional is in week 1

Yarden's team's robot was pretty great but the ranking are very effected from the teams you randomaly play with.

Just one more porblem, we had a game with a team that did not come, what chances do you have in Ariel Assist while playing 2 VS 3?

Coming from Hawaii I certainly understand this. I am not sure of the exchange rate and such, but traveling from Hawaii to do another regional seems just as expensive.. A round trip from Ben Gurion to NYC is about 950 USD. From Kona, Hawaii to Los Angeles, California a flight is 850+. I just did a quick Expedia search for the same days in the first week of April. Of course I am not sure of the other issues that are encountered when traveling from there to here. We have done a few mainland regionals as well as an international event in Canada. We fundraise all year long because of this. Sadly this year we were unable to generate enough funds to do an additional regional. I do understand your frustration. It can be very expensive, 95%+ of the Hawaiian teams do not travel out of state and just compete in the one and only Hawaii regional. Be proud of what you have accomplished. FRC is the "Hardest Fun Ever!"

Aloha!

[carol95]

I completely agree with you. Everytime I check "Team Update" there is always something new regarding alliances. I believe they are putting too much rules on how alliances should work, and in the end all these rules may confuse players and drivers. Too many rules about how alliances should be runned.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by carol95

I completely agree with you. Everytime I check "Team Update" there is always something new regarding alliances. I believe they are putting too much rules on how alliances should work, and in the end all these rules may confuse players and drivers. Too many rules about how alliances should be runned.

I'm not entirely sure you're reading the same team updates everyone else is reading.