On Saving Seats

[Mr. Van]

How about this:

Queue up to go into the venue in the order you arrive. It is absolutely unfair to have one team member line up early and then have a bus load of 70 students, parents and other supporters come up and assume they get to go to the front of the line. Line up to enter the venue in the order you arrive. If you want seats for your team, get your whole team there early.

Do not save seats in the arena. Sit in a group if you like, but do not block of a large section of the stands. If someone comes to sit with you, welcome them.

The primary violators of seat saving are not students or mentors, they are parents. We simply need to get them to understand how we do things. Or at least how we should be doing things.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[ThunderousPrime]

Originally Posted by Mr. Van

How about this:

Queue up to go into the venue in the order you arrive. It is absolutely unfair to have one team member line up early and then have a bus load of 70 students, parents and other supporters come up and assume they get to go to the front of the line. Line up to enter the venue in the order you arrive.

I was going to this but I was beaten to it.

In my opinion one of the most common acts of ungracious professionalism is when teams that are behind you in line run to get the the prime seats. This is wrong. What further irks me is when they send 3 or 4 people to save seats for their entire team. This is also wrong. If you want a certain section of seats convince your whole team to get up and get in line early so you can get them fairly like any other gracious professional would.

I would love to see a system implemented that involvles releasing groups of 50 or so people at at time to prevent the mad scramble for seats. The open the floodgates approach for opening venues doesn't work well.

Also another pet peeve of mine is when teams insist a certain section of seats is theirs because "we were here yesterday" or "we always have these seats". Again the only rule that should apply is who has their whole team assembled in the line in the morning the day of.

[Mr. Van]

Originally Posted by ThunderousPrime

I would love to see a system implemented that involvles releasing groups of 50 or so people at at time to prevent the mad scramble for seats. The open the floodgates approach for opening venues doesn't work well.

The controlled entry is a very good idea. Having both inadvertently been swept up in it and been asked to stop it (as a volunteer), I believe that the mad scramble for seats is perhaps the single most dangerous thing at any FIRST event.

Control the entry, don't allow for any saved seats.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[xSAWxBLADEx]

It seems like it is either the whole team rushing to the seats, or the scouters and a few parents to save enough seats for the team. In my opinion, it is much safer to save seats...unless FIRST assigned seats based on team size and time registered to the event.

[bduddy]

Certainly it is not a pleasant experience if most or all seats in the stands are being "saved"... but teams should be able to sit together, even if many team members are not always in the stands. Surely there is some kind of solution that can satisfy both criteria?

[IbleedPink233]

Seating at events is terrible from every angle:
1. Teams are completely different sizes
2. The positioning of other teams can disturb others - e.g. teams that stand + have signs obstructing vision - even if it is banned during a match, it can still be problematic
3. Many teams have equipment and possessions and literally nowhere safe to put them besides their seating area
4. Eating at some arenas is financially absurd - necessitating leaving the venue to eat
5. Narrow band of seating that has clear view of the field - varies from year to year
6. Close seating can help out scouting immensely - but there isn't space for everyone who wants to scout
7. Visitors tend to come on the last day of the event - I've seen ~15 alumni from a single team; dozens of parents,family, and friends; multiply that by dozens of teams at an event and you end up with hundreds of people trying to cram in-between teams
8. Competitions should be a way to showcase FIRST to outsiders - but they always get stuck watching from the worst seats
9. Students need supervision
The list goes on.

With these things - some teams feel they have to save seats to handle all of these issues.

I think that a seat reservation system would be ideal:
Event coordinators use the venue's ticketing/seating system - the architecture is already there to assign seats and blocks fairly- then every team can get "tickets" that aren't required for entry, but just list what seats that team has
Each team applies with an estimated #of seats that they need
Adjust the estimate per day of the event to include visitors
Maybe have a scouting block - 6 seats for all teams that request it.

I'm sure that such a system could be abused, but the current system is unenforceable and rage-inducing

[rsegrest]

Originally Posted by IbleedPink233

Maybe have a scouting block - 6 seats for all teams that request it.

Someone else on CD suggested a reserved section for scouting a couple of years ago and I think it would be a great idea! Unfortunately when you are talking about 64 teams and 6 seats/team that's 384 seats so that's something that would have to be worked out. But I still say a scouting section is a great idea.

[Conor Ryan]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

Someone else on CD suggested a reserved section for scouting a couple of years ago and I think it would be a great idea! Unfortunately when you are talking about 64 teams and 6 seats/team that's 384 seats so that's something that would have to be worked out. But I still say a scouting section is a great idea.

I've seen scouting sections set up by the regional planning committees, and honestly I am not a fan. Generally they do not get used, some scouts use it, but a vast majority do not and would rather sit with their teams. Additionally, it really takes the crowd out of it since they are prime seats.

I am very against saving seats, I know teams would like to sit together as a team, but honestly, all the doors open at the same time. Show up as a team and then you can get the privilege to sit together as a team.

Some venues which mandate Ushers to be on staff during the events have actually had the venue staff enforce this rule and generally it works pretty well, and usually you end up with a crowd that is way more into the game.

[pmangels17]

I don't like the idea of a team cordoning off an entire section for team members that are not there. However, that being said, demanding that there not be an empty seat within the block of a team is a bit ridiculous. Teams have pit crews and drive teams that want to sit sometimes, and not being able to sit with the team is not fun. At least for our events (SBPLI Long Island and New York City) there is usually enough seating that finding a block big enough for a 40 person team isn't that crazy. And usually most teams are easy to work with if you need to use a couple of empty seats near them. I know we are always happy to oblige as well.

[Brandon Ha]

I think that this should be planned by the area's committee or those who put the event together. They would request an as close to real attendee number and assign teams locations and then if necessary readjust for Saturday.
But this issue is something that I personally am disgusted at. We arrived around 7:50 with the whole entourage and picked a reasonably nice spot, about 10 feet from the middle of the field and plopped down. A while later, our business lead came back to me and told me that another large team had requested that we move to a different spot. I was just flabbergasted that they had asked someone to move. It was not meant to be a sharing of the space but a blatant move out the way fool. This team was a team that has been around for a long time so I did not expect such actions from them, and was really frustrated at them. I just do not understand why there are expectations that teams are given some right to their seats again for another day of competition. We suffered through a day where we could barely see the field, now they could. I do understand the fact that they were a larger team but we had around 80 people there and watching our team. So at the end of the day, I think that if we had our event coordinator plan where everyone will sit would help alot of teams out

[XaulZan11]

It looks like FIRST has listened to some of the seating compliants at the championship. According to page 11 on this document, there will be special seating for the 6 teams currently playing.

[tim-tim]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

It looks like FIRST has listened to some of the seating compliants at the championship. According to page 11 on this document, there will be special seating for the 6 teams currently playing.

I like the idea and glad FIRST is listening to us. My concern now is, will the team's 'normal' or 'regular' seats be lost/forfeited due to vacating to watch from the new viewing area?

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by tim-tim

I like the idea and glad FIRST is listening to us. My concern now is, will the team's 'normal' or 'regular' seats be lost/forfeited due to vacating to watch from the new viewing area?

The document doesn't give details about the size of the team viewing sections, but one possibility is that they would be geared mostly for the pit crew that will only watch one match anyways.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by tim-tim

I like the idea and glad FIRST is listening to us. My concern now is, will the team's 'normal' or 'regular' seats be lost/forfeited due to vacating to watch from the new viewing area?

They tried this at the NC Regional and it failed miserably. As far as we could tell it wasn't remotely enforced, they only announced it in a private mentors meeting, there was conflicting information about whether the rule had been repealed, and to compensate for "saving" these seats they allowed teams to "leave possessions in the stands.

I think it is an okay idea, but they need to actually enforce it and get the word around. If not they will just end up with a group of jerks sitting in it for the whole competition and end up splitting up team members who want to sit together.

[rich2202]

How about something like this:

1) Prime section(s) where No Reserved Seats is enforced. Intended for scouts, people who come and go, unaffiliated persons just wanting to watch.
2) Remaining seats are divided into Good, and OK sections.
3) Lottery for remaining seats
4) Team can either select a block of 20 seats in the Good section, or a block of 50 seats in the OK section.
5) Once everyone has been through the lottery once, teams wanting more seats are put through the lottery process again.
6) The number of seats a team can get are based upon the team size (number of registered students and mentors).

A trading forum is established so teams can trade (with compensation?) sections to get all their people together (or close together).

Think of the blocks as where the team has "priority", but "gracious professionalism" is expected to apply to seats that are not being used.