2014 MAR Standings

[Jscout11]

Just noticed 2607 is registered for the Virginia regional. That brings the total number of MAR regional teams up to eleven

[rocpe]

1626 from Metuchen will be competing for the first time this season this weekend at Clifton. We are looking to have an after school "out-of-bag" experience with a fairly local team with a full practice field so we can try to dial in our shooter and practice assists with another robot.We saved about two hours.

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Double the 2012 amount, not the 2013 amount. Also, worth considering that we will now lose slots for outside regional qualifications. 11 and 2016 would have pulled slots last year, and 2590 and possibly 341 would have pulled slots in 2012. Based on the teams travelling in 2014, I wouldn't expect that trend to end. We'll know by week 5, with only 2234 competing week 6.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ive_web#gid=22

~snip~

So theoretically it is possible that, say, 6 of those 11 teams could win their other regional they are attending and MAR would be left with only 4 teams getting World spots off of points?

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by dellagd

So theoretically it is possible that, say, 6 of those 11 teams could win their other regional they are attending and MAR would be left with only 4 teams getting World spots off of points?

Yes, any method of qualifying would remove a slot (Win, CA, EI, RAS).

[Hallry]

Scott, I have a question. Let's say fictitious MAR team 000 wins the (now) fictitious Brazil Regional, and qualifies for World Champs. However, they don't win on the field at MAR Champs, nor Chairman's, EI, RAS, nor are in the next top 10 ranked. Since they only qualified for World Champs outside of MAR, does MAR still lose a slot allotted for World Champs?

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Scott, I have a question. Let's say fictitious MAR team 000 wins the (now) fictitious Brazil Regional, and qualifies for World Champs. However, they don't win on the field at MAR Champs, nor Chairman's, EI, RAS, nor are in the next top 10 ranked. Since they only qualified for World Champs outside of MAR, does MAR still lose a slot allotted for World Champs?

Yup, that's how I read the rules. MAR would essentially just pretend that they finished in the points.

I think the only exception would be if a HoF team (103, 341, 365) qualified outside, since they're already exempted from counting against the MAR total.

Edit:

Here's the rule listed below. It doesn't say what slot gets removed, but I would assume a "points" slot.

District Teams do not earn points for their actions at any Regionals they may attend, but are still eligible for Team
awards at those events, and any benefits that may go along with winning those awards, such as earning their way to the
FIRST Championship. However, if a District Team does earn a slot at the FIRST Championship while attending a Regional
event, that slot does count against the total Championship allocation the District is receiving for the season.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Edit:

Here's the rule listed below. It doesn't say what slot gets removed, but I would assume a "points" slot.

District Teams do not earn points for their actions at any Regionals they may attend, but are still eligible for Team
awards at those events, and any benefits that may go along with winning those awards, such as earning their way to the
FIRST Championship. However, if a District Team does earn a slot at the FIRST Championship while attending a Regional
event, that slot does count against the total Championship allocation the District is receiving for the season.

I was just gonna get to this . Yeah, as far as I can tell, there is no mention of what slot is removed. It could be one of the two Chairman's or EI slots for all it says.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Yup, that's how I read the rules. MAR would essentially just pretend that they finished in the points.

I think the only exception would be if a HoF team (103, 341, 365) qualified outside, since they're already exempted from counting against the MAR total.

Edit:

Here's the rule listed below. It doesn't say what slot gets removed, but I would assume a "points" slot.

Scott, I'm still not entirely sure what happens in the case of HOF teams, there was a lot of discussion about this during the later part of 2013 and early 2014, but I can't remember if we conclusively had an answer. If we apply the wildcard rules/logic to this instance, an HOF team would remove a slot from their district assuming their regional slot was their first qualification of 2014. That being said - the slot may also be passed down, since HOF teams are not 'supposed' to count towards a region's slot allotment.

Regarding which slots are removed, yes, in the case of an outside qualification one of the 'points' slots are removed since they're essentially 'open' slots for qualification.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Scott, I'm still not entirely sure what happens in the case of HOF teams, there was a lot of discussion about this during the later part of 2013 and early 2014, but I can't remember if we conclusively had an answer. If we apply the wildcard rules/logic to this instance, an HOF team would remove a slot from their district assuming their regional slot was their first qualification of 2014.

HoF teams will not consume a slot even if they win (at) a regional, that's what I was told by Ed Petrillo.

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

HoF teams will not consume a slot even if they win (at) a regional, that's what I was told by Ed Petrillo.

Thanks for the clarification Don. It may be a stopgap, but the intent of that rule is still lost on me, and sets the stage for some problematic scenarios. I think "reverse-wildcard" is the best name for it.

As of now we have at least 7 teams with a legitimate shots at some flavor of a blue banner. I'm sure some of those teams will/would qualify via MAR points too, but the possibility of walking into MAR CMP with only 3 slots open to teams via points is pretty drastic. Obviously unlikely that all 7 teams come back with banners, but stranger things have happened. Something to watch as weeks 4 & 5 creep up on us.

On an unrelated note: sheet is updated, 38 teams have played both of their district events. Looking like the cutoff for MARCMP will be somewhere in the 50's depending on the number of teams that decline the invitation.

As for World CMP, there are 121 teams registered (one more day for week 3 qualifiers to register). There are 284 more slots to be gained, so we're trending towards the 400 number again depending on declines, double qualifiers, and wild cards.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by scottandme

On an unrelated note: sheet is updated, 38 teams have played both of their district events. Looking like the cutoff for MARCMP will be somewhere in the 50's depending on the number of teams that decline the invitation.

As for World CMP, there are 121 teams registered (one more day for week 3 qualifiers to register). There are 284 more slots to be gained, so we're trending towards the 400 number again depending on declines, double qualifiers, and wild cards.

Just for sources, according to this FRC Blog post, there will again be 400 teams at the World Championships in St. Louis, and according to this MAR Blog post, 55 teams will be invited to the MAR District Championships at Lehigh University.

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Just for sources, according to this FRC Blog post, there will again be 400 teams at St. Louis. Somewhere I saw that 55 teams will be invited to Lehigh this year, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Yup, mostly a reference to expect a very short waitlist (if any) for WCMP this year.

Here's the MAR blog referencing 55 teams.

http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/blog/category/mar/

For comparison: we went down the rankings list to the 65th ranked team to get 49 teams at MAR CMP last year (16 declines), and we went down to the 64th ranked team to get 53 teams at MAR CMP in 2012 (11 declines). Hopefully the extra week gap between district and DCMP will help fix this a bit, but I think it might be a struggle to add even more teams to the event since we have actually shrunk as a district compared to 2013.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by scottandme

On an unrelated note: sheet is updated, 38 teams have played both of their district events. Looking like the cutoff for MARCMP will be somewhere in the 50's depending on the number of teams that decline the invitation.

Last year, the 50th placed team had 47 points. The last team to accept an invite, I believe, had 39 points. With five more invite spots and no growth in the region, how are you determining your "somewhere in the 50s" number? Are the first and second year bonus points really that much of a factor?

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Are the first and second year bonus points really that much of a factor?

Also remember that this year the third team on an alliance is getting more elims points and that all of those 2 point awards are now 5 points.

I don't expect the cutoff to be above 50 after all of the declines, but it seems like a reasonable guess for where the 55th rank team will be.

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Last year, the 50th placed team had 47 points. The last team to accept an invite, I believe, had 39 points. With five more invite spots and no growth in the region, how are you determining your "somewhere in the 50s" number? Are the first and second year bonus points really that much of a factor?

That would be the cutoff for the 55th ranked team, and I would guess it would be in the low 50's - thought I didn't type that for some reason. No idea how many declines we'll have this year - hopefully fewer with the MAR grant system better developed and more time to get registered and paid. Though we do have more 3rd event teams this year, haven't looked in depth at how those teams are doing/how many points they'll pull from the system through elims/awards.

The overall point system has inflated by more than just rookie points. I'm assuming we have 108 teams this year (136 & 896 no show at Clifton?), we had 109 last year with a few only doing 1 event.

Qual Points - same structure, roughly same # teams
Elim Selection - the old system (10/8 pts per round) yielded 196 points per event, the new model yields 210.
Awards - old system gave 49 pts max, new system gives 86 points max
Rookies - 95 points total

So last year we had 5336 points across 109 teams. ~49/team if we're looking at an average - which roughly works for a lazy calculation of a 55 team cutoff. Real cutoff at #55 was 45 points. So a little inflated, but not too bad.

This year we should have 5891 points across 108 teams. Doesn't count any points lost to 3rd event teams in elims or awards. Gives us ~54.5 points/team as an average. So we're looking at increase of roughly 5pts/team from the changes to the point system.

From the 38 teams who have finished both events, the middle of the pack (#19) has 57 points. That grouping of teams looks better than average though.