2014 Arkansas Regional

[rbrown1]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I take it that you do not know what you are talking about. If you knew the Novak's you wouldn't make such a comment. They have been working hard over the last couple years to get FIRST in Arkansas. Look at the number of teams that have started in Arkansas in the last two years, heavily due to the Novak's.

Secondly based on your comments you also don't know what it takes to put on a regional. In Kansas City it take over 180 volunteers. If it is not for the teams stepping up to help make sure there is enough volunteers we would not have the competitions. When you have put on a regional or recruited as many teams as they have we will then talk.

[AlecMataloni]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I can't believe what I am reading.

I've been involved in FRC for five years, and FIRST for eight years total. I've seen a lot of good, and a lot of bad. Now, if you were to ask me, at this very moment, which team best exemplifies the spirit of FIRST and "Gracious Professionalism", I'll say Baxter Bomb Squad every time...

I'm appalled that you would accuse one of the sweetest, most professional acting, most generous, and perennially virtuous teams in the history of FRC of rigging an event. Team 16 is a Hall of Fame team, which means they've been awarded the highest honor in FRC. I can't even imagine for a second a scenario where 16 would even consider doing anything like what you're accusing them.

Not only are you attacking the team, you're attacking one family in particular. John and Meredith Novak have been a crucial part of FRC in the Midwest for as long as I've been around the program. There is no doubt in my mind that Team 16's honorable actions partially stem from their involvement with the team. If you ACTUALLY knew the family, or ACTUALLY knew what you were talking about, you'd most likely take all of these ridiculous accusations back.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

...snip...

Which explanation do you think is more likely to be true?

A complex situation observed by a number of volunteers running a brand new game (that we already know to be very difficult to referee) leads to a discussion to compare notes and determine what they thought was the most accurate call?

Or, a Regional-wide conspiracy (going all the way to the Regional Director and Regional Planning Committee, and, apparently, a large multi-national health care company) to fix a high school robotics competition?

[robotlover77]

I am not attacking anyone. I simply provided information that I did not know beforehand. I notice you did not dispute that indeed it is all factual. People can take from it what they want and draw their own conclusions. I think transparency is of utmost importance in any kind of competition especially when the outcome is determined by the referees decision, not by game play.

I was there as a potential team sponsor. I am not relying on biased hearsay. There was not simply one foul that decided one match. The blue alliance won the first match and appeared to have one the second and third, but because of fouls called in the last two after the match had concluded it was determined that they lost. I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

I am not attacking anyone. I simply provided information that I did not know beforehand. I notice you did not dispute that indeed it is all factual. People can take from it what they want and draw their own conclusions. I think transparency is of utmost importance in any kind of competition especially when the outcome is determined by the referees decision, not by game play.

I was there as a potential team sponsor. I am not relying on biased hearsay. There was not simply one foul that decided one match. The blue alliance won the first match and appeared to have one the second and third, but because of fouls called in the last two after the match had concluded it was determined that they lost. I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

"As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired."

"seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest."

" Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest"

"This was a sad, sad day for FIRST....."


These are ALL attacks.

Sorry for not disputing your tenuous grasping at straws slandering a family that has driven FIRST in the Midwest for as long as I can remember one of whom is a WFA winner and a team that doesn't NEED to win to go to Championship due to the fact that they are a Hall of Fame team.

The fact that several people have come out telling you outright that the Novak family are pillars of the FIRST community as well as genuinely upstanding individuals may tell you something.

If you don't believe me, fine, contact FIRST.

FIRST
200 Bedford St.
Manchester, NH 03101


Contact Don Bossi. That's about as far up as you can go.

But stop dragging a well respected member of our community through the mud publicly.

[Mrcope9]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

I agree with this to an extent robotlover77. Our team, 3991, also from Louisiana was heavily involved in watching the finals at Arkansas. We cheered excessively for our good friends from 2992 until the last whistle blew. After the scores came up in match #2, we were quite surprised and it was unclear as to what exactly happened. As finals match #3 concluded we were once again befuddled as to how foul points could change the effect of a game and a regional chapionship that much. Even though the red alliance had substantial support from the crowd, it was heartbreaking to see that happen to our dog in the race. After matches were over, we congratulated 2992 and told them how proud we are that they gave it their best. My team did nominate them for the Gracious Professionalism Award, and knowing that they received it was music to our ears.
But in supporting them, in no way am I mad that the alliance from Arkansas won the regional. Upon talking with members and mentors from Team 16, it was clear that they exhibit qualities of FIRST that very few teams do. Mr. Brandon and Courtney deserved the Woodie Flowers and Dean's List Awards, respectively. I am so glad I got to meet each of them. And for Mrs. Novak, we cannot thank you enough for the amount of work you and your team of volunteers put into this event. As a group, we enjoyed and were honored at the fact that we got to be apart of what they have been working at for 20+ years. I am happy for them, and I cannot wait too see their partners, team 3937 at the Bayou Regional.


-Matthew Cope
Team 3991 Drive Team

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

I heard many in the stands voicing their displeasure. One person even predicted the exact outcome after the second match. I was shocked and asked where to voice my concerns. They directed me to this site and told me to send a letter to FIRST.

So someone predicted foul play, then observed an outcome that could have had any number of (simpler, much more common) causes, therefore it must be foul play? Presumably this person (who feels qualified to call "conspiracy" when he/she sees it) also knows that the real-time score displayed during the match is unofficial?

Then they directed you to go drag a team's reputation through the mud on a public forum?

Sounds like there was indeed some despicable behavior at the Arkansas Regional. If you do indeed send a letter to FIRST, I hope you include the identity of this/these person(s) in its contents.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Mrcope9

After the scores came up in match #2, we were quite surprised and it was unclear as to what exactly happened. As finals match #3 concluded we were once again befuddled as to how foul points could change the effect of a game and a regional chapionship that much.

Fouls deciding matches was not unique to the Arkansas regional, or even this game, although this game is notorious for it.

See pretty much every match at every week 1 or 2 event.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

...As an impartial observer of the entire regional...

Had you carefully observed the last ten seconds of the final match, you would likely not be making such a foolish accusation. It's true that there was a technical foul assessed that didn't appear in the score until after the match was over. That's because the rule violation itself (possessing an opponent's ball) was committed so near the end buzzer that there was literally no time for it to be entered earlier.

[Mrcope9]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but how on earth can you "agree 100%" with this person's slander of the Novak family, but then thank them a few sentences later?

Think before you post, as you're representing your whole team right now.

Thank you for pointing that out. I do not agree with the slander and attacks at the Novak family. I was wrong to say I agree 100% with the entire post. I agree 100% with the observations that these matches will go down as controversial.

[robotlover77]

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

Well, here then, I posted the mailing address of FIRST and gave you the name of someone who can actually look into it. CD is unofficial in all capacities. Take it up with folks who can look into things.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

My intent is not to drag anyone through the mud. I simply posted what I witnessed and facts that I read from an official program. If I were a team contemplating entering a regional next year I would appreciate all the information I could gather to make an educated decision regarding where I spent my time and dollars.

In comparison to other competitive events if Mother Theresa had a team competing in the Super Bowl and was put in charge of hiring the officiating crew and her team won on a controversial call I believe there would be cause to question the outcome. That would not be saying that Mother Theresa or her family were bad people just that there was potential for bias which could have determined the outcome.

Huh, didn't realize your thought process could get more outlandish, but I guess I was wrong.

Based on your logic, almost every single event in FIRST is rigged. BMR is managed by Purdue FIRST alumni, and there are Purdue teams that compete. MSC is managed by more than a few elite team mentors and their teams compete there. At the event that I was at this weekend, the Rookie All Star team also was on the winning alliance and was top seeded rookie and their sponsor university was the host.

What you are describing, elite teams who manage events, is not corruption but teams being role models for other teams. See, managing an event is difficult. Managing a team is difficult. Combine those two things together and you have one heck of a stressful weekend.

I suggest you volunteer for an event, so you learn how exhausting it is, and how amazing event and volunteer coordinators are.

The facts are this:
There is a proper protocol to go through if a team questions the outcome of a match, that protocol does NOT include slander on CD.
Refs huddle up after matches, especially during the finals, to make sure they get the calls correct.
The Novak's are one of the absolute nicest families in FIRST.
You are wrong.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by robotlover77

Sircedric4 your team is to be commended for the example of gracious professionalism you exhibited. As an impartial observer of the entire regional I am absolutely sickened by what transpired. There was a collective rumble that went through the crowd of non Arkansas spectators as the ultimate result was revealed. There is a large faction that saw this for what it was. The fact that the regional winner was determined after the match, based on foul point assessments, after a good deal of elapsed time, with the outcome ultimately favoring not one, but two home teams is suspect in and of itself. The fact that the driver of the team that won, 16, shares the same last name as both the Regional Director (Novak) and another member of the Arkansas Regional Planning Committee seems to me in and of itself a huge conflict of interest. Additionally, a judge was a senior engineer from Baxter, sponsor of the winning team. Considering the outcome I think it is highly suspect and at the very least deserves investigation by FIRST. Had it been a clear victory this would not be a consideration. Anyone that thinks this was a clear victory is either delusional or dishonest. I didn't have a dog in the race and came into this completely impartial. I am just a fan of FIRST and a believer in fair competition. This was a sad, sad day for FIRST.....

This is absolutely appalling. A family as well respected as the Novak's and a team as well respected as 16 would NEVER do anything you are suggesting. Remember, that 2 years ago, 16 experienced first hand what somebody actually fixing an event feels like, and I guarantee that they would NEVER allow anything like that to happen, because they have seen how it affects everybody involved.

[bduddy]

I'm not going to comment on any conspiracy theories.
But can anyone tell me what rule was violated at the end of that match? 4090 only contacted the red ball once and without using an active mechanism, which has been specifically defined as not being POSSESSION. The only thing I could find is G11,
BALLS may not be intentionally or repeatedly ejected from gameplay
but that's a Foul, not a TF. Maybe hitting the opponent's ball into your own goal isn't part of the "normal" way to play this game, but that doesn't mean that it's a foul.