Game Manual - Team Update - 2014-03-11

[Tom Bottiglieri]

People should just be able to bring whatever they want in. Barely functioning robots are not inspirational and high caliber teams will just work/spend around the issue anyway.

[Kevin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej

Or you could just take those items off your practice bot and revert them to their COTS state (unassemble gearboxes, remove leads, etc.) before you leave for competition. That doesn't cost any money.

Whats the difference between doing that at home and doing that in the parking lot?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej

Or you could just take those items off your practice bot and revert them to their COTS state (unassemble gearboxes, remove leads, etc.) before you leave for competition. That doesn't cost any money.

Yay! forcing teams to spend more time for no net gain.

Gotta love it.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sheridan

Whats the difference between doing that at home and doing that in the parking lot?

This sounds like the setup to a bad FIRST joke.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Yay! forcing teams to spend more money for no net gain.

Gotta love it.

Agreed,

Personally I don't care what teams bring in, bring in your practice bot and a million spare parts. I'd rather just play teams that are 100% working. I'd rather have an exciting finals or I'd rather beat/lose to XYZ team while they are fully functioning etc.. To me its like watching the Yankees play the Boston Red Sox but 1/2 the players are injured.

Why do you care if a team brings in practice bot? Not fair? Is life fair? If you think life is fair, you are sadly mistaken.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej

Or you could just take those items off your practice bot and revert them to their COTS state (unassemble gearboxes, remove leads, etc.) before you leave for competition. That doesn't cost any money.

Or you could revert them to their COTS state at the event if they become necessary.

If Team A were to have their practice bot in the arena parking lot and remove an assembly consisting of a stock pneumatic cylinder with a rod end and jam nut threaded onto the end, all they need to do to be legit is to take the rod end and jam nut off, carry all three items into the pit, then put them back together.

This brings back the days when there was a massive argument over whether battery leads had to be included in your witholding allowance, because the batteries were no longer COTS as soon as they were assembled. FIRST ended up saying they did not, that they were integral to the battery. Terminals are also integral to motors, so logically they should allow a motor to still be COTS after being applied. Has anyone asked that Q&A?

[nixiebunny]

The difference between stripping parts in the parking lot vs home is the number of parts you feel like stripping at home. Which parts will fail?

[MrBasse]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Yay! forcing teams to spend more money for no net gain.

Gotta love it.

Who exactly forced you to build a practice robot?

[Jon Stratis]

Is it really that big of a deal to prepare for competition? If you want something available, do what you need to do to bring it into the venue with you at load in. It's that simple. Thousands of teams do it, why should some teams have the privilege of a trailer full of stuff outside that they can pick and choose from during an event?

I would certainly argue that it's not "forcing teams to spend money/time for no net gain" - It's forcing teams to plan ahead, organize, and prepare. If you're presenting some new wonder-gadget for your company, odds are you bring spares with you to the venue. Odds are you have supplies to fix anything conceivable that could go wrong. Odds are you have a plan for the entire event, with sufficient redundancies that the product launch doesn't become a flop. It's the same thing here.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

Who exactly forced you to build a practice robot?

You could say us, you could argue in a roundabout fashion FIRST by giving teams in district areas an easier set of rules to compete in without a practice robot.

We can argue down that path to no net gain if you desire, but the case I'm describing is no different than using last years robots as a source for COTS spares at events. "Who forced you to build last years robot?" doesn't drive the same point home.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Is it really that big of a deal to prepare for competition? If you want something available, do what you need to do to bring it into the venue with you at load in. It's that simple. Thousands of teams do it, why should some teams have the privilege of a trailer full of stuff outside that they can pick and choose from during an event?

I would certainly argue that it's not "forcing teams to spend money/time for no net gain" - It's forcing teams to plan ahead, organize, and prepare. If you're presenting some new wonder-gadget for your company, odds are you bring spares with you to the venue. Odds are you have supplies to fix anything conceivable that could go wrong. Odds are you have a plan for the entire event, with sufficient redundancies that the product launch doesn't become a flop. It's the same thing here.

So if FIRST can make a trivially different ruling that saves teams time and money, they shouldn't because things are tough in the real world?

[Arefin Bari]

Honestly, who cares if you bring a practice robot in? We got other issues to address before we even get anywhere close to the practice bot issue... and even then, practice bots arent an isssue. (Thats my opinion)

No we dont have a practice robot; unfortunately we dont have a budget to be able to build one.

Oh and if a well financed team didnt bring all their spares and parts in, struggling teams and new teams wouldnt receive much help from teams at events.

We had a hanging mechanism last year on thursday at our first regional because a team brought in extra spares.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by Arefin Bari

.

Oh and if a well financed team didnt bring all their spares and parts in, struggling teams and new teams wouldnt receive much help from teams at events.

We had a hanging mechanism last year on thursday at our first regional because a team brought in extra spares.

Gotta highlight this one,

Same case for us, we gave parts to over 15+ team at CVR this past weekend because we had them available.

[BrendanB]

Let's not forget that teams without practice robots also have over 45lbs of pre-fabricated items.

They exist more than you think they do.

[Arefin Bari]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It's that simple. Thousands of teams do it, why should some teams have the privilege of a trailer full of stuff outside that they can pick and choose from during an event?

Because those teams have earned the privilege by working with their members to raise money or get more sponsors to be able to better fund their team.

You can do the same...

Again, we arent a very well funded team but it would sure be very nice to have a practice bot.