[FRCTop25.com] Week 2 Results LIVE tonight!

[I-DOG]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Here's a way to possibly change things a bit. If you see a team with an outstanding performance that you think should be recognized, when this thread appears on CD post about them. Include video links if you can.

In my honest opinion, I disagree with this statement. To be ranked in the FRCtop25 your team should not only be in the 99.99% percentile of all robots competing, but should also display the ability to finish a regional. Teams that do not finish as at least finalist should hardly be considered within the best 25 teams.

There is more to ranking a team than just the quality of their robot. Their ability to scout and pick effective alliances, execute well thought out strategies, and win games should be factored in as well.

An excellent example of a team who did not belong among the top 25 last year was my own team 624. We had an excellent robot which would easily rank among the top 25 robots, but when it came to actually finishing a regional we could not. 624 never even made it to the finals last year which made me question how people actually rank teams within the top 25.

It should be as simple as ranking teams in college football. Yes there will be teams who get in purely based on popularity. However, if those teams do not display the ability to win games, then they quickly find themselves outside of the top 25. To make it on my own ballot a team simply needs to do one thing, win.

[steelerborn]

I am not putting down any team, if it came off that way I am sorry.
Thank you everyone for the nice messages you have been sending me privately. Glad to see I am not the only one seeing this.

[magnets]

There's nothing wrong with the top 25 voting, but it really is a popularity contest. Without looking, who can name two robots who played in the finals at CVR or Alamo? I'd bet most can name at least a few. What about Groton, or Gull Lake? You can't vote for teams you've never seen.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by I-DOG

In my honest opinion, I disagree with this statement. To be ranked in the FRCtop25 your team should not only be in the 99.99% percentile of all robots competing, but should also display the ability to finish a regional. Teams that do not finish as at least finalist should hardly be considered within the best 25 teams.

You need to be in about the top 0.1% to be in the FRC Top 25, based on number of teams this year.


Here's a few statistics
Last year, there were 25 teams that won their first two regionals.
Last year, there were 63 teams that had 4 or less losses in their first two regionals.
Last year, there were 113 teams that won at least one regional as alliance captain, or first pick.
This year, there have been 26 events so far, so there have been 78 regional champions, 52 as alliance captain or first pick.
This year, there have been 36 teams that have won multiple judged awards at a regional.

It's only going to get harder to be in the top 25. Even if there were perfect voters, there are a lot of amazing teams that won't be in the top 25.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

You need to be in about the top 0.1% to be in the FRC Top 25, based on number of teams this year.


Here's a few statistics
Last year, there were 25 teams that won their first two regionals.
Last year, there were 63 teams that had 4 or less losses in their first two regionals.
Last year, there were 113 teams that won at least one regional as alliance captain, or first pick.
This year, there have been 26 events so far, so there have been 78 regional champions, 52 as alliance captain or first pick.
This year, there have been 36 teams that have won multiple judged awards at a regional.

It's only going to get harder to be in the top 25. Even if there were perfect voters, there are a lot of amazing teams that won't be in the top 25.

Why did you have to go and bring statistics into this?

Seriously great way to prove the point here Joe.

Just remember the 16 teams that make Einstein this year represent .04% of the teams that QUALIFY for Championship, or roughly .005% of all FIRST teams this year.

When you throw perspective on how big an accomplishment it is to even be mentioned you should realize how difficult it is to get mentioned.

Also if you disagree with your ranking prove them wrong.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

Just remember the 16 teams that make Einstein this year represent .04% of the teams that QUALIFY for Championship, or roughly .005% of all FIRST teams this year.

When you throw perspective on how big an accomplishment it is to even be mentioned you should realize how difficult it is to get mentioned.

Which is why I get PUMPED for my kids when they make the Top 25

Originally Posted by steelerborn

Glad to see I am not the only one seeing this.

Jon, everyone sees it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get any less excited about it. This is a huge encouragement to my kids, to be recognized for all their hard work on an international stage is something to be proud of. I hope it doesn't take away from your students' experience, they have a lot to be proud of as well!

-Mike

[steelerborn]

Michael, seeing 1678 up there is awesome. I am always really impressed with your team and you guys have very great students. We are usually right next to you guys in Davis and everyone is very nice. 1678 is one of my favorite teams now.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by I-DOG

In my honest opinion, I disagree with this statement. To be ranked in the FRCtop25 your team should not only be in the 99.99% percentile of all robots competing, but should also display the ability to finish a regional. Teams that do not finish as at least finalist should hardly be considered within the best 25 teams.

There is more to ranking a team than just the quality of their robot. Their ability to scout and pick effective alliances, execute well thought out strategies, and win games should be factored in as well.

An excellent example of a team who did not belong among the top 25 last year was my own team 624. We had an excellent robot which would easily rank among the top 25 robots, but when it came to actually finishing a regional we could not. 624 never even made it to the finals last year which made me question how people actually rank teams within the top 25.

It should be as simple as ranking teams in college football. Yes there will be teams who get in purely based on popularity. However, if those teams do not display the ability to win games, then they quickly find themselves outside of the top 25. To make it on my own ballot a team simply needs to do one thing, win.

I'm still trying to figure out what in my post you disagree with because other than saying you disagree nothing else in your statement in contradicting what I said.

[rcmolloy]

I do think it is a bit ridiculous that some are upset at the fact that their team didn't make the Top 25. We all need to realize that these rankings are not 100% based off statistical data.

The only real time where this voting was near true was back in 2011 when there was another set of anonymous voters who analyzed the pool of robots that could be picked for that week. These individuals are not only much more competent than some voting but they also had tangible data to back them up.

I don't think a popularity based vote identifies the capability of a single teams robot. Now if people could prove me wrong and show me the data they used to generate their team list that would be reasonable. However, I don't view the FRC Top 25 as a viable ranking for robots and neither should anyone else.

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by I-DOG

In my honest opinion, I disagree with this statement. To be ranked in the FRCtop25 your team should not only be in the 99.99% percentile of all robots competing, but should also display the ability to finish a regional. Teams that do not finish as at least finalist should hardly be considered within the best 25 teams.

There is more to ranking a team than just the quality of their robot. Their ability to scout and pick effective alliances, execute well thought out strategies, and win games should be factored in as well.

An excellent example of a team who did not belong among the top 25 last year was my own team 624. We had an excellent robot which would easily rank among the top 25 robots, but when it came to actually finishing a regional we could not. 624 never even made it to the finals last year which made me question how people actually rank teams within the top 25.

It should be as simple as ranking teams in college football. Yes there will be teams who get in purely based on popularity. However, if those teams do not display the ability to win games, then they quickly find themselves outside of the top 25. To make it on my own ballot a team simply needs to do one thing, win.

We have OPR and Elo (I can run this if anybody wants me to) available, if you want more objective rankings...

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by connor.worley

We have OPR and Elo (I can run this if anybody wants me to) available, if you want more objective rankings...

Not that I need it for any reason, but coming from a chess background it would be kinda cool to see ELO ratings.

[pwnageNick]

People need to keep in mind, FRC Top 25 is not like the normal NCAA top 25. For that, there is a much smaller amount of teams, compared to the incredibly large amount that are selected from in FRC. It is a fun thing that brings people together. I've honestly always watched over these past four ears for the discussion about he game and strategy foremost. It is also interesting to hear about the different teams that make it every week as there are always at least a few teams I've never heard much about and I slowly over time learn about more teams. That is what people should take out of the show, not who was ranked XX instead of being XX. This isn't the BCS rankings (and thank god for that, as I'm sure some of us know how much of a disaster that is) so we should not treat it as such.

Bottom line, enjoy the conversation, learn about some teams every week you don't know about, and check out the info available on the website.

-Nick

[lovelj]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

3D printing changes the whole Monopoly game! I can make whatever token (robot, gargoyle, yoda, spock, gerbil) I want AND I have a bunch of secret, extra houses and hotels that I don't have to buy.

Take a look at what 3824 is doing. They have a new sponsor, Local Motors, because of what they're doing with 3D printers.