Red robot pushes in blue ball?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Evan W

The other thing that I have seen is a robot shooting their ball over the truss and it bouncing into their low goal. It seems like this should not be counted as a goal by the rules posted in this thread.

I have noticed the same thing.

Originally Posted by FRC Manual

A BALL is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if
B. the ALLIANCE ROBOT last in contact with the BALL was entirely between the TRUSS and their ALLIANCE’S HIGH GOALS, and

To me, the truss-shots-bouncing-into-goals should not be counted. I would suggest raising this question during the Drivers' Meeting before the event.

[Jeffrafa]

Originally Posted by Evan W

The other thing that I have seen is a robot shooting their ball over the truss and it bouncing into their low goal. It seems like this should not be counted as a goal by the rules posted in this thread.

We did this twice in qualifying matches at the PNW Oregon City district, inbounded, truss shot, then bounced into the top of the low goal. It was a definite fluke, but pretty cool to see.

The first time the refs counted it as scored for 1 point, and gameplay continued. The next time they got a field resetter to return the ball to our human player on the far side of the truss. In the first case, it definitely didn't sway the outcome of the match, but it seems the refs reviewed it and came to an understanding about how it should be handled in the future. The tough part is that it takes coordination between the ref making the call, and the field reset properly handling the ball - if field reset isn't paying close attention, they could think it was scored and immediately return it to the far end of the field. As long as they are both aware of this possibility it should not be an issue.

We also had a unique case in finals where our alliance shot over top of opposing robots, the shot was deflected by an opposing bot, bounced off the top of them and into the top of the low goal. Technically our alliance initiated the score from the correct side of the truss, but the last robot to touch the ball was an opposing robot. It was counted as scored, although there was an ~8+ second delay before the pedestal lit. We were told after that the ref had made an error on the scoring pad and it took awhile to undo and correct - since it didn't affect the outcome of the match we didn't replay.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

How about herding - gotta have some pretty purposeful motion to pop that ball up and into the front of the 1-point goal, eh?

No fouls were levied against the red alliance in the following situation - not for directing the ball toward the blue goal initially, nor for pushing it through the front of the goal.

Here is video of the match (thanks again, 2252). It is clear to this set of eyeballs that red was not under duress and purposely HERDED our blue ball into the goal, with no help from blue - http://youtu.be/nOGNdYU0dNs?t=57s

It is also clear that the referee was looking directly at this action the whole time, and failed to act.

Here are the head referee's exact words related to this red alliance action - "That particular match, if we are talking about the same occurrence, was definitely followed by a lengthy discussion between your driver, 829’s driver, and I. Our interpretation was that the team bumped the ball one direction (towards the driver station), then in a different direction (towards your goal). Because the pushing/bumping led the ball in different directions, we considered the bumps separate and, therefore, not repeated and not herding. As for them “scoring” your ball in the low goal, we did not see them break the plane of your alliance’s low goal. We did notice that your alliance robot(s) were in the area, and while engaged in a pushing match with the opponent, the ball was forced into the low goal. There is no rule against such an occasion. The definition of scoring (3.1.4) does not specify that the robot scoring be from the offensive alliance."

Video evidence is a heck of a thing, ain't it? :-) It's also fun when you can overhear the people taping the vid call out the infraction from the very top of the bleachers.

Regarding the ball being scored or not scored - if the blue alliance above needed a 10 point goal plus assists to win the match, I do not like that the defensive alliance could use a 1-point goal score as a defensive maneuver without repercussion.

Calling herding for pushing the ball into the goal mitigates this unfairness. Yeah we get 1-point instead of 10, but thank you very much for the 50 points as well. Maybe you won't try doing it ever again now.

And to add insult to injury the refs indecision to decide what to do cost the alliance an 8 second delay in lighting the pedestal.

[TheRamAlakazaam]

In one of our qualifying matches a opposite alliance robot scored the ball and was returned to the field and considered in play.

Only bad thing about this is that it consumes a lot of time and i'm not sure if the opposite alliance gets a foul or not

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by IndySam

And to add insult to injury the refs indecision to decide what to do cost the alliance an 8 second delay in lighting the pedestal.

In a similar vein, I believe the scores SHOULD count (along with at least one tech foul awarded), because I certainly don't want the defenders knowing they can pop the ball out of play through the 1-point goal and have us wait for a volunteer to return it to a HP before we can get our assist points credited. The match may end before that happened. Unless you want to double whammy them with two techs - one for herding, and one for illegally and intentionally removing an opponent ball from the playing field. Then go for it - thanks for the 100 points, jokers!