2014 Waterloo Regional

[Jonathan Norris]

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

[Bochek]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

Waiting for the Ref's to decide, It went in the front, then out the side after the buzzer.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

I believe it went in through the front, and somehow went out the side. I think that and another penalty is what they are discussing.

[George Nishimura]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

That's the debate.

By the rulebook, probably not. It says 'remain completely' in the goal, although it is unclear how long 'remain' means, as I believe the ball was fully in the goal at some point.

I presume the delay is someone calling FIRST HQ to make sure the intent of the rule is clear and the actual definition of 'remain completely'.

[Pjohn1959]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Did that last blue low goal score go in or not??

That's what the delay is for. Trying to decide that...

[brandon.cottrell]

Blue wins.

For the record, apparently the goal at the end of the game was not counted.

[Cullenwelch88]

What a match!! Good job to the ref for taking the time to review and reflect!

Cheers!!!

[JohnFogarty]

1114 is having the worst luck with fouls this year.

[Lil' Lavery]

Eeek. Tough way to go. Getting a 50 point foul from the actions of the other alliances, in which they only get a 20 point foul. By the letter of the law, the calls seem correct, though.

[Jonathan Norris]

Goal didn't count.

But 1114 just lost because 1241 broke their 'antenna', I don't get it. Isn't there a rule that you can't cause the other team to get a penalty? you penalize 1241 for causing the damage, but ALSO give 1114 a 50 point penalty for being outside 20" frame perimeter. You can't blame it on one team, then give more penalty points to the other team... ugh.

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

Goal didn't count.

But 1114 just lost because 1241 broke their 'antenna', I don't get it. Isn't there a rule that you can't cause the other team to get a penalty? you penalize 1241 for causing the damage, but ALSO give 1114 a 50 point penalty for being outside 20" frame perimeter... don't get it. ugh.

The rule prevents STRATEGIES causing the opposing alliance to get fouls.

G14:

Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of FRC and are not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in assessment of a penalty on the target ALLIANCE.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Ty Tremblay

The rule prevents STRATEGIES causing the opposing alliance to get fouls.

This foul will be discussed all week.

[PriyankP]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

This foul will be discussed all week.

There's nothing to discuss though, 1241 didn't do that on purpose - I'm sure even Sims would agree. Tough loss nonetheless.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by PriyankP

There's nothing to discuss though, 1241 didn't do that on purpose - I'm sure even Sims would agree. Tough loss nonetheless.

Oh, I agree. Nothing against 1241. It didn't look intentional at all.

But a 20 point foul caused a 50 point foul for the opponent. It will be discussed, even though I believe the refs got it right.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Oh, I agree. Nothing against 1241. It didn't look intentional at all.

But a 20 point foul caused a 50 point foul for the opponent. It will be discussed, even though I believe the refs got it right.

The rules in question, by my viewing:

Originally Posted by FRC 2014 Game Manual G24

A ROBOT’S horizontal dimensions may never exceed 20 in. beyond its FRAME PERIMETER (see illustration in Figure 3-6).

Violation: FOUL. If continuous or repeated violations, TECHNICAL FOUL.

Originally Posted by FRC 2014 Game Manual G27 As Modified by 03-20-2014 TEAM UPDATE

Strategies aimed at and/or game play resulting in the damage, destruction or inhibition of opponent ROBOTS via actions such as high-speed or repeated, aggressive ramming, attachment, tipping, or entanglement of ROBOTS are not allowed.

Violation: FOUL. If strategic, TECHNICAL FOUL. Potential YELLOW CARD.

<BB>For example, use of a wedge-like MECHANISM to flip ROBOTS would be considered a violation of G27.

MECHANISMS outside the FRAME PERIMETER are particularly susceptible to causing such damage and drawing this penalty and/or penalties associated with violations of G28. Teams are encouraged to be cautious in their use of such appendages when engaging in ROBOT to ROBOT MATCH play.</BB>

Originally Posted by FRC 2014 Game Manual G28 As Modified by 03-20-2014 TEAM UPDATE

Initiating deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent ROBOT on or inside the vertical extension of its FRAME PERIMETER is not allowed.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL

<BB>High speed accidental collisions may occur during the MATCH and are expected. Generally, ROBOTS extend elements outside of the FRAME PERIMETER at their own risk.

A ROBOT with an element outside its FRAME PERIMETER may be penalized under this rule if it appears they are using that element to purposefully contact another ROBOT inside its FRAME PERIMETER. Regardless of intent, a ROBOT with an element outside its FRAME PERIMETER that causes damage to another ROBOT inside of its FRAME PERIMETER will be penalized, unless the actions of the damaged ROBOT are the catalyst for the damage.</BB>

We all agree that G14 is not invoked, as the actions were not deliberate.

G24 certainly should be called on 1114. Their antenna was >20" outside their FRAME PERIMETER for a continuous time. TECHNICAL FOUL.

G27 should be invoked by the "gameplay resulting in damage to opponent ROBOTs" clause. FOUL.

G28 should ALSO be invoked by "Initiating... damaging contact with an opponent ROBOT... inside the vertical extension of the FRAME PERIMETER". TECHNICAL FOUL.