301 points! and could have done more

[Coach Norm]

If you thought you had an outright chance to win the match by outscoring the other alliance, then I agree. If you did not think you had a chance to win by outscoring whether in agreement or not is another question in my mind.

Incentives should not lessen the game itself or change the strategies of the teams participating in my opinion - not matter what the level of sponsorship or involvement.

I think that the semi-finals of this regional are more realistic to what alliances should expect in elimination matches. Defense was actually played and resulted in missed shots and mishandled balls in the process.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by kuraikou

Both teams were still playing to win, they just both consensually decided to make it a match where both teams tried to score higher than the other and to get a high score.

But if one alliance hadnt scored over 200 in any of their previous elimination matches, than it looks to me that money led that decision to forgo the defense.

[pandamonium]

So this is a very interesting scenario. So what would stop me from making the same deal with an alliance regardless of a bet? Would you want some teams playing defense free matches in an attempt to rack up high Assist scores? Would that not create an unlevel playing field for some teams that did not know there opposing alliance as well as you?

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by dodar

I just don't see how you tell your seniors that you were doing that. Telling them we are just playing to get 200+ instead of playing to win. How do you justify playing for maybe $500 for next year vs winning a blue banner and getting that invite to STL for Champs?

The seniors decided themselves. Nobody told anybody to do anything. I also don't want make opinions for others but maybe they thought they had a better feeling about going for Steve Sanghi's offer. I can speak for us, we were happy to go either way. Each challenge seemed intriguing. If you had been there, you obviously would not have agreed and we would have taken you head on.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

So this is a very interesting scenario. So what would stop me from making the same deal with an alliance regardless of a bet? Would you want some teams playing defense free matches in an attempt to rack up high Assist scores? Would that not create an unlevel playing field for some teams that did not know there opposing alliance as well as you?

No rule says you have to play defense. That is for teams to decide. So to answer your question, there is nothing to stop you. You are the one that has to live with whatever you do. I have faith in FIRST participants to do what is right.

[ChargerRt6]

As the driver of Team 60 I knew from the first match that our (blue) alliance was out matched. Haha, they were definitely giving us a run for our money. So, my alliance and the red alliance came to an agreement to play the next match with low stress and possible high reward. That is why there is no defense in the last match. In doing so, that allowed me personally to enjoy the last match of the regional to the fullest. Its all about fun anyway.

[ChargerRt6]

Originally Posted by dodar

I cannot honestly believe anyone would agree to this. That really lessens the win to me. How do you tell this year's seniors that "hey, we arent going to try to win for a chance at maybe getting some of next years' entry fee."

I am a senior and I was convinced to do it. I didn't do it for me. I did it for my friends on my team and helping them have fun next year. From my 4 years of being on Team 60, I learned that fundraising is a difficult task that needs hard work. If I could work with my alliance and the opponent to make money less of an issue, I will. By the second match of finals, for me, it wasn't about winning. It was about having fun and helping the teams.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by ChargerRt6

I am a senior and I was convinced to do it. I didn't do it for me. I did it for my friends on my team and helping them have fun next year. From my 4 years of being on Team 60, I learned that fundraising is a difficult task that needs hard work. If I could work with my alliance and the opponent to make money less of an issue, I will. By the second match of finals, for me, it wasn't about winning. It was about having fun and helping the teams.

Other than the fact they won, do you think 2403 was having a blast during F1-2 in the fact they never moved and touched the ball for less than 15 seconds the whole match?

Saying they wouldnt have wanted to drive around and play defense and push people around rather than just sit there is ludicrous.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by ChargerRt6

I am a senior and I was convinced to do it. I didn't do it for me. I did it for my friends on my team and helping them have fun next year. From my 4 years of being on Team 60, I learned that fundraising is a difficult task that needs hard work. If I could work with my alliance and the opponent to make money less of an issue, I will. By the second match of finals, for me, it wasn't about winning. It was about having fun and helping the teams.

Nicely said man!

[ChargerRt6]

Originally Posted by dodar

Other than the fact they won, do you think 2403 was having a blast during F1-2 in the fact they never moved and touched the ball for less than 15 seconds the whole match?

Saying they wouldnt have wanted to drive around and play defense and push people around rather than just sit there is ludicrous.

True, It is a fun to play with defense. But, what I believe is that we were having fun because we didn't have the stress of dealing with the other alliance. I know personally that defense can be fun. At that point though, we were having fun without it. I know I was. Besides, The red alliance brought it up first. And that is the truth. So, I would assume, yes 2403 was having "a blast".

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

Originally Posted by dodar

Other than the fact they won, do you think 2403 was having a blast during F1-2 in the fact they never moved and touched the ball for less than 15 seconds the whole match?

Saying they wouldnt have wanted to drive around and play defense and push people around rather than just sit there is ludicrous.

Plasma seemed pretty stoked on earning their 3rd regional win in their history.. They were picked for their great in bounding and invaluable passing skills and performed it every match with consistency. I'll let someone from plasma chime in if they want to though as I'm just speculating.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Coach Norm

I think that the semi-finals of this regional are more realistic to what alliances should expect in elimination matches. Defense was actually played and resulted in missed shots and mishandled balls in the process.

Watch finals match 1, played with defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNwCVSuy1vw

We were totally outgunned. Defense didn't do a dang thing for us.

Seriously...what did either side have to lose?

If you watch the quarterfinals, you'll see what alliances should expect in elimination matches.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn8...uery=qf+4+2014

I learned from Fredi years ago about paradigm change....and I think I'm not the only one who respects his ideas about it.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by dodar

Other than the fact they won, do you think 2403 was having a blast during F1-2 in the fact they never moved and touched the ball for less than 15 seconds the whole match?

Saying they wouldnt have wanted to drive around and play defense and push people around rather than just sit there is ludicrous.

Maybe 2403 will answer themselves. I can say that they contributed 10 points every cycle. The human player through the ball to 2403 and they popped the ball up and over to us and we then took it to the truss which we through over to the other human player and then they dumped it into 2486 which then made the goal. By the way they also did that all through the finals matches and just added defense when they could. But you can ask them....

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

Watch finals match 1, played with defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNwCVSuy1vw

We were totally outgunned. Defense didn't do a dang thing for us.

Seriously...what did either side have to lose?

If you watch the quarterfinals, you'll see what alliances should expect in elimination matches.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn8...uery=qf+4+2014

I learned from Fredi years ago about paradigm change....and I think I'm not the only one who respects his ideas about it.

Thanks Jim, that is the nicest thing you have ever said to me...I have a tears in my eyes......

[nixiebunny]

This match showed the world of FIRST just how nice we Arizonans really are, our crazy politicians notwithstanding.

If you want controversy, try to find *any* fouls due to G40 in the Arizona regional.