301 points! and could have done more

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

I can say that they contributed 10 points every cycle.

You mean 20 points per cycle. In a second or two. That's the best point/time performance of any of the teams on your alliance. Steven and I were discussing that this morning.

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

Watch finals match 1, played with defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNwCVSuy1vw

We were totally outgunned. Defense didn't do a dang thing for us.

Seriously...what did either side have to lose?

If you watch the quarterfinals, you'll see what alliances should expect in elimination matches.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn8...uery=qf+4+2014

I learned from Fredi years ago about paradigm change....and I think I'm not the only one who respects his ideas about it.

I agree that the quarterfinals were more like what you should expect.

Being outgunned is not fun either.

Norman

[safiq10]

I congratulate you guys for winning and making $500.

Do I agree with what you did? Not really. Would we have done the same thing? I dont know.

But as a defensive team that would have really sucked! Our team thrives on playing defense and some of the most exciting matches were matches in which someone was playing defense. Take Dallas 2014 when 3847 played defense or any of the elimination matches! They were fun and exciting (not to mention extremely difficult!)

but that is just my 2 cents congrats on the $500 and the win!

[dodar]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

Maybe 2403 will answer themselves. I can say that they contributed 10 points every cycle. The human player through the ball to 2403 and they popped the ball up and over to us and we then took it to the truss which we through over to the other human player and then they dumped it into 2486 which then made the goal. By the way they also did that all through the finals matches and just added defense when they could. But you can ask them....

Saying "they just added defense when they could" vastly undercuts their efforts on your alliance. In the QF alone they stopped that blue alliance from scoring at least 50% more.

[BleakRNS]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

In defense of Mr. Steve Sanghi no one was required to do this.... its was put out there and teams took it. Take it for what it was worth, a motivating incentive. I am also interested in why everybody keeps saying why AZ is not a hot bed. I have heard this several times already. Based on population density, I think we are a hot bed. AZ has had teams on Einstein several times and AZ has threats every year. Also team 842 is a hall of fame team and 2486 is a major threat for championships chairmans this year. I guess I should not take this view of us too critically, its gives us an advantage at the championships if people are not paying attention to us. Too many times people on CD neglect Arizona and we struggle to get any attention. We are used to it, we have learned to be "mavericky". We aren't Michigan....

Never said Sanghi forced anyone to do this. I was a participant on an AZ team for the last 3 years, and while there are some very good teams as you've mentioned, the regional has been overall historically weak (not as much this year, though). Last year, AZ's average winning score was more than 10 points lower than the world average. Yes, there have been Arizona teams on Einstein, but very few have even reached CMP division eliminations in recent years. Arizona's not being "neglected" in my view, there just hasn't been enough to talk about recently in terms of robots (save a few). Don't get me wrong, I've learned to love Arizona's "mavericky" style. But maybe "mavericky" isn't for the best.

[Shelbers2486]

Originally Posted by safiq10

I congratulate you guys for winning and making $500.

Do I agree with what you did? Not really. Would we have done the same thing? I dont know.

But as a defensive team that would have really sucked! Our team thrives on playing defense and some of the most exciting matches were matches in which someone was playing defense. Take Dallas 2014 when 3847 played defense or any of the elimination matches! They were fun and exciting (not to mention extremely difficult!)

but that is just my 2 cents congrats on the $500 and the win!

The blue alliance was not actually able to score the 200 points, so no money was awarded.

[waialua359]

Actually, this isn't the first time 2403 has won in their home state of Arizona.
I do recall selecting them in 2010, when we won in the Colliseum.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by MrForbes

You mean 20 points per cycle. In a second or two. That's the best point/time performance of any of the teams on your alliance. Steven and I were discussing that this morning.

Thanks Jim, you see why I am not on the drive team....

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by dodar

Saying "they just added defense when they could" vastly undercuts their efforts on your alliance. In the QF alone they stopped that blue alliance from scoring at least 50% more.

You keep looking for negatives among a whole group of people who are obviously happy about their decision. Are you a lawyer? Just kidding. Think what you want, we all stand by our decision.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

You keep looking for negatives among a whole group of people who are obviously happy about their decision. Are you a lawyer? Just kidding. Think what you want, we all stand by our decision.

Im not looking for negatives, just pointed out what you said. And I bet you guys are happy, you won the regional; to which I say congrats.

[seg9585]

Morality and consensual agreements between opponents aside, this was by far the most boring Finals match I've ever seen in any FIRST regional ever, considering how many points were actually scored. You really wanted to end a competition like this?

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Morality and consensual agreements between opponents aside, this was by far the most boring Finals match I've ever seen in any FIRST regional ever, considering how many points were actually scored. You really wanted to end a competition like this?

Well its very fortunate then that there are many regionals. Our regional is what it was. Gracious professionalism and coopertition.

[Nathan Rossi]

Our alliance (1492, 4183, & 2647) was also offered to put down defense (for just one match) to try and maximize both of the alliance's scores. The reason I was so skeptical about doing this was we had just spent all of our time during lunch beefing up 2647 for defense (adding 2 CIMs, extra weight, and ect.). Though, the offer was very tempting (and looking back I wish we had taken it).

We did end up losing due to 60's excellent defensive play (and 4183 unfortunately losing power in the last 40 seconds of QF4-3).

I would like to personally apologize for not taking the offer, as I was 1492's primary strategist and had a weighted opinion as to if we should've done it or not. I think both alliances could've easily gotten over 200 points.

After watching week one, I wondered if any alliances would try such a strategy (dropping defense for high scoring) I'm actually surprised we didn't see this strategy sooner.

Originally Posted by seg9585

Morality and consensual agreements between opponents aside, this was by far the most boring Finals match I've ever seen in any FIRST regional ever, considering how many points were actually scored. You really wanted to end a competition like this?

As someone who was watching in person, I can tell you it was far from boring (it was in fact very exciting!).

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

Well its very fortunate then that there are many regionals. Our regional is what it was. Gracious professionalism and coopertition.

Let me ask real quick, then: Would this type of match be acceptable if it was the Final match on the Einstein field? How big of a bribe would be required to make it acceptable on Einstein?

Conversely, would the teams have done this in Arizona if only $100 off was offered? Just $50 off? There must be a threshold...

Many teams and almost all spectators (and sponsor reps) only go to 1 regional so this is all they see.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Nathan Rossi

Our alliance (1492, 4183, & 2647) was also offered to put down defense (for just one match) to try and maximize both of the alliance's scores. The reason I was so skeptical about doing this was we had just spent all of our time during lunch beefing up 2647 for defense (adding 2 CIMs, extra weight, and ect.). Though, the offer was very tempting (and looking back I wish we had taken it).

We did end up losing due to 60's excellent defensive play (and 4183 unfortunately losing power in the last 40 seconds of QF4-3).

I would like to personally apologize for not taking the offer, as I was 1492's primary strategist and had a weighted opinion as to if we should've done it or not. I think both alliances could've easily gotten over 200 points.

After watching week one, I wondered if any alliances would try such a strategy (dropping defense for high scoring) I'm actually surprised we didn't see this strategy sooner.



As someone who was watching in person, I can tell you it was far from boring (it was in fact very exciting!).

This right here is my problem with the kind of bet that requires a team to give up something. You should not have to feel bad for playing the game the way you designed your robot to do it. I believe this sponsor's heart was in the right place but it's still a very weird direction to move the game.

I also agree with the sentiment offered by seg9585. If the money is what makes it worth it, then does the amount matter?