Go to Post A game where you don't have control of your robot for long periods of time is no fun (unless, of course you are talking about autonomous :p) - Cody Carey [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 4.05 average. Display Modes
  #151   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:06
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is online now
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,927
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
Iin AZ there is a tax credit system in place for donors. If you donate 200 if single and 400 if married ,you get the amount back dollar for dollar. For many in AZ 500 dollars is not that big an incentive. I can't speak for anyone else but we raise over 10 thousand a year in tax credits. Money is never an incentive for us to throw our morals out of the way. We were doing it for the challenge. We always try to take on the challenge Steve Sanghi puts out to us each year. Maybe he should not offer any money based on how everyone is out of sorts or maybe he should donate the money to a charity so that everyone could relax. There was no big conspiracy or underhandedness. It was just a challenge. A public challenge, everyone one in attendance knew it. He never told anyone to not play defense, that was a decision that both alliances came to on their own. Maybe it would have been better if the challenge were different like giving both alliances $500 if all balls were scored in autonomous. Thant way no one would have to give up anything. That was more along the lines of the type of challenge he has done before. Maybe that is why no one thought any different for this challenge?
But then why wait till money was involved? Why not do it any other time? That was the only thing that changed from doing it in any other match.
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-2012

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #152   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:08
Rangel's Avatar
Rangel Rangel is offline
John Rangel
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 742
Rangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
But then why wait till money was involved? Why not do it any other time? That was the only thing that changed from doing it in any other match.
The offer stood for every match in the regional including qualifying so money was technically involved throughout the whole competition. It only happened in the last match because every team agreed to try and beat the challenge as a sub goal.
__________________
2012 Dean's List Winner
2011-2014 Arizona Regional Winners
2016 Las Vegas Regional Winner
2014-? Mentor


Reply With Quote
  #153   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:10
falconmaster's Avatar
falconmaster falconmaster is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ledge
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,406
falconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to falconmaster
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McLaughlin View Post
Do you think that all teams involved would have agreed to attempt this "challenge" if there were no monetary incentives attached to completing it?
I can't speak for the other teams, but given the history of Steve Sanghi and the AZ regional event I would say yes, but I will let them speak for themselves.
__________________
Faridodin "Fredi" Lajvardi KD7WKD
Reply With Quote
  #154   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:10
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is online now
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,927
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
The offer stood for every match in the regional including qualifying so money was technically involved throughout the whole competition. It only happened in the last match because every team agreed to try and beat the challenge as a sub goal.
Oh ok, didnt know when the offer was put forth. But then the question begs, why was the monetary incentive needed to try to do that? If it would have happened without the money, then why was the money introduced? If it only would have happened with the money, then there's your answer.
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-2012

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #155   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:13
Rangel's Avatar
Rangel Rangel is offline
John Rangel
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 742
Rangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Oh ok, didnt know when the offer was put forth. But then the question begs, why was the monetary incentive needed to try to do that? If it would have happened without the money, then why was the money introduced? If it only would have happened with the money, then there's your answer.
I think your going way too deep into this decision be Steve Sanghi to involve money. He wanted to promote and reward excellence and this happened to be his way of doing so. Last year was the first challenge which was to have 6 robots off the ground in a match and initially stuck a monetary reward on that so it just seemed natural to stick a monetary reward on this year's challenge.

Edit...
Btw, Steve Sanghi may be on the FIRST board of directors but he decided to set this challenge individually out of his own pocket. He technically has every right to spend his money how he sees fit.
__________________
2012 Dean's List Winner
2011-2014 Arizona Regional Winners
2016 Las Vegas Regional Winner
2014-? Mentor


Reply With Quote
  #156   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:16
falconmaster's Avatar
falconmaster falconmaster is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ledge
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,406
falconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to falconmaster
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
But then why wait till money was involved? Why not do it any other time? That was the only thing that changed from doing it in any other match.
I don't know, I wasn't in the decision making process between the two alliances. But I would guess that the blue alliance figured they were going to lose anyway and wanted to take Steve up on his challenge. If it was purely for the money I would guess it would have been done earlier in the tournament. Even though there was money attached, I truly believe they all did it for the challenge, the wanted to meet Steves challenge, money be damned. The Blue alliance wanted to go out with a bang and they almost pulled it off. Actually now that I am thinking about it, all this discussion is kind of a bang....
__________________
Faridodin "Fredi" Lajvardi KD7WKD
Reply With Quote
  #157   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:17
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is online now
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,927
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
I don't know, I wasn't in the decision making process between the two alliances. But I would guess that the blue alliance figured they were going to lose anyway and wanted to take Steve up on his challenge. If it was purely for the money I would guess it would have been done earlier in the tournament. Even though there was money attached, I truly believe they all did it for the challenge, the wanted to meet Steves challenge, money be damned. The Blue alliance wanted to go out with a bang and they almost pulled it off. Actually now that I am thinking about it, all this discussion is kind of a bang....
Im not limiting this to the Finals, as someone before has said, this challenge was throughout the regional.
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-2012

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #158   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:26
falconmaster's Avatar
falconmaster falconmaster is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ledge
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,406
falconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond reputefalconmaster has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to falconmaster
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Im not limiting this to the Finals, as someone before has said, this challenge was throughout the regional.
No one did before because the money was not an incentive, that is the only reason I can come with...The challenge only became a reality when the it was the last time available to achieve it. I guess the two alliances wanted to take a real shot at it.
__________________
Faridodin "Fredi" Lajvardi KD7WKD
Reply With Quote
  #159   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:26
Dave McLaughlin's Avatar
Dave McLaughlin Dave McLaughlin is online now
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Pullman, WA
Posts: 299
Dave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

I'm curious how finals match 3 would have been played if the other alliance had won during finals 2 and the challenge was still on the table...
Reply With Quote
  #160   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:26
SciBorg Dave SciBorg Dave is offline
Registered User
AKA: Dave Tharp
FRC #5920 (VIKotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Palouse WA
Posts: 209
SciBorg Dave is a splendid one to beholdSciBorg Dave is a splendid one to beholdSciBorg Dave is a splendid one to beholdSciBorg Dave is a splendid one to beholdSciBorg Dave is a splendid one to beholdSciBorg Dave is a splendid one to behold
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

I just watch the match and then read the post. I think that was a poor lesson learned for $. I do not think the match was something to be proud of.
Reply With Quote
  #161   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:27
Dave McLaughlin's Avatar
Dave McLaughlin Dave McLaughlin is online now
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Pullman, WA
Posts: 299
Dave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond reputeDave McLaughlin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
No one did before because the money was not an incentive, that is the only reason I can come with...The challenge only became a reality when the it was the last time available to achieve it. I guess the two alliances wanted to take a real shot at it.
Wanted to take a real shot at it, or take a real shot at a $500 consolation prize...
Reply With Quote
  #162   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:29
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is online now
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,927
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
The offer stood for every match in the regional including qualifying so money was technically involved throughout the whole competition. It only happened in the last match because every team agreed to try and beat the challenge as a sub goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
No one did before because the money was not an incentive, that is the only reason I can come with...The challenge only became a reality when the it was the last time available to achieve it. I guess the two alliances wanted to take a real shot at it.
These things dont match. Either the money was always there or it wasnt. And if the money wasnt an incentive, why did no one else do it for the other 97 matches?
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-2012

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
  #163   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:32
Rangel's Avatar
Rangel Rangel is offline
John Rangel
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 742
Rangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond reputeRangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar View Post
These things dont match. Either the money was always there or it wasnt. And if the money wasnt an incentive, why did no one else do it for the other 97 matches?
I believe he meant more about the robots actually being able to score 200 points on both side. If you really think about it the 2 best alliances in the final couldn't pull it off so the odds of doing it for another random match isn't really realistic.
__________________
2012 Dean's List Winner
2011-2014 Arizona Regional Winners
2016 Las Vegas Regional Winner
2014-? Mentor


Reply With Quote
  #164   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:33
chris1592's Avatar
chris1592 chris1592 is offline
Chris
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Thailand
Posts: 48
chris1592 is a jewel in the roughchris1592 is a jewel in the roughchris1592 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
No one did before because the money was not an incentive, that is the only reason I can come with...The challenge only became a reality when the it was the last time available to achieve it. I guess the two alliances wanted to take a real shot at it.
For all you know, every team at the regional was trying to do the challenge throughout the weekend, the "legitimate" way (i.e. playing just like every other match and hoping both teams get 200 pts).

I can't speak for Steve, but it probably was not his intentions to issue a challenge where the only way to do it was for both alliances to have to amend their normal game play.

That being said, I personally wouldn't have resorted to this type of strategy to complete the challenge as in my opinion it is not genuine; to each their own I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #165   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 15:34
dodar's Avatar
dodar dodar is online now
Registered User
FRC #1592 (Bionic Tigers)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Posts: 2,927
dodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond reputedodar has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
I believe he meant more about the robots actually being able to score 200 points on both side. If you really think about it the 2 best alliances in the final couldn't pull it off so the odds of doing it for another random match isn't really realistic.
Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesnt show why no other matches didnt try this "strategy" to get the "Highest Score/$500."
__________________
1592(Student and Mentor) 2007-2012

Blue Banners: 2008 Colorado, 2012 Orlando, 2012 South Florida, 2014 Orlando, 2015 Buckeye

Mechanical Engineering - University of Central Florida(Class of 2016)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:05.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi