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  #196   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:38
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by MrForbes View Post
The interesting thing is that there was a higher monetary incentive to win the regional. If you go back thru the thread, you might find a post by a member of team 1492, with a link to the video of the offer. Something like $1000 payment towards registration for Champs for the teams on the winning alliance. I don't really remember.

If you read my post at the top of this page, you'll see that we decided that the no defense strategy was indeed a more viable strategy to win the match, than playing defense.

The monetary offer is what sparked the idea to not play defense. It is not what really made us do it, as far as I can tell.
So you guys went, "Hmmmm if we lost by 100+ by having 1 defender, maybe we can win with 0 defenders."

I dont see the logic. Also, I dont see how you cant see if the money brought you to any type of strategy, how that is bad.
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  #197   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:39
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by falconmaster View Post
. We in AZ did want we felt was in our best interest and none of us have a problem with it. Is there any AZ person posting here with your POV? ..
No I agree with everyone else on this thread the actions that were taken in that finals match were way out of line why have it be a finals match but play it like a practice match. I am a new mentor on an AZ team that was competing last weekend FRC team 4841. The day that sponsor gave out that challenge I knew unless something like this situation took place where no one played def that challenge wouldn't be met. I am honestly saddened to see a HOF team act in that manner. I know the team that made me who I am today which is FRC 71 would never act like that, in fact we played every match to the fullest and knew if we lost we gave it our all. If thats the way Arizona Robotics is gonna be ran then I am not someone who wants to be apart of it
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:39
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
The offer stood for every match in the regional including qualifying so money was technically involved throughout the whole competition.
Wow. This is a shocking situation. In FRC, in a year in which the game is highly defensive in nature, a sponsor of a specific regional is offering a cash reward to teams at that specific regional if they can stage high scoring matches.

If someone had told me this story as hearsay, I would have told them they must be wrong. That kind of thing does not happen in FIRST. But evidently from these first hand accounts it is true. Never have I heard of sponsors or anyone else offering money to teams who can manage a certain outcome to matches. That is the worst idea and the slipperiest slope I have ever heard of.

Even if the sponsor's intent wasn't to pump up the scores and records at their regional, how could they not anticipate that there would be any other appearance? Is this where FIRST is going? Cash prizes for scoring performances? Some regionals with monetary prizes and some regionals without? I cannot believe that FIRST agrees with or condones this situation.

There are more considerations and more teams/people affected by this than just those involved in this match. The integrity of the results of the regional, the integrity of scoring records, statistics, and OPRs in all of FRC, and the integrity of FIRST competitions in general are affected. FIRST is an amatuer sport driven by GP, learning, and competitive spirit. Nothing good can come from making it a competition for money.

Last edited by jspatz1 : 24-03-2014 at 16:45. Reason: typo
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:40
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by BHS_STopping View Post
I bet you, with a high degree of certainty, that if Steve Sanghi had presented the challenge without the monetary contribution, we would have seen the exact same thing happen.
So you are saying that if the $500 towards next year's registration wasnt offered, the blue alliance would have just gone along with the "no defense" agreement for(pardon the language) "shits and giggles?" Mind you, at risk of losing the regional.
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:40
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by BHS_STopping View Post
You're going to have to elaborate on this one. All of the teams came together and made this decision themselves. How is that not in the spirit of FIRST? Are you really so bent on trying to bring down last year's National WFA winner and his team? It really seems like you just want so badly for them to admit that they're wrong. What's your goal here?
It doesn't really help that 842 started this thread (and another) that was essentially just bragging about them winning. Not the most gracious way to celebrate a win.
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:41
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
So you are saying that if the $500 towards next year's registration wasnt offered, the blue alliance would have just gone along with the "no defense" agreement for(pardon the language) "shits and giggles?"
If the challenge was in place, then abso-freaking-lutely.
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  #202   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:42
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
It doesn't really help that 842 started this thread (and another) that was essentially just bragging about them winning. Not the most gracious way to celebrate a win.
I completely agree
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  #203   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:43
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by BHS_STopping View Post
If the challenge was in place, then abso-freaking-lutely.
Then Im sorry but they are in the wrong competition to just blindly give up a chance at going to the World Championships to try and reach a goal that no one really cares about for no gain whatsoever.
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  #204   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:43
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

Falcons missed both of theirs,

Sorry Jim we made both of ours, but a great recounting. Srka Johnson and drive team had final say on strategy I gave my ok.
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:44
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Then Im sorry but they are in the wrong competition to just blindly give up a chance at going to the World Championships to try and reach a goal that no one really cares about for no gain whatsoever.
So be it.
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:44
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by BHS_STopping View Post
There are several reasons the teams did this, but money almost certainly wasn't at the top of list.
Exactly. What people are overlooking here is that $500 isn't that much. For our team, that's a single tax credit. Nobody is upset we didn't get the $500, but we're happy that we got to have a good final match*.

*"Good final match" is subject to the viewer's opinion
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:45
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by Dave McLaughlin View Post
Most importantly it seems to me after reading this that the teams goals changed from winning the blue banner to completing the challenge once they felt they had no chance to win the event. The introduction of a goal that became more important than winning the match for those teams competing demonstrates the inherent problem with incentives other than winning the match.
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Exactly, instead of seeing the F1-1 score and looking towards how to beat them the next match, they moved their attention to just going for that 200pt barrier.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but:
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy View Post
The blue alliance did BETTER in the second match than in the first.
C'mon, it was a fun challenge that no one had attempted. The $500 was just a deduction from the team's entrance fee next year (and they didn't even get it).
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:45
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by Maxwell777 View Post
Exactly. What people are overlooking here is that $500 isn't that much. For our team, that's a single tax credit. Nobody is upset we didn't get the $500, but we're happy that we got to have a good final match*.

*"Good final match" is subject to the viewer's opinion
The amount isnt the problem.
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Unread 24-03-2014, 16:47
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy View Post
I hate to sound like a broken record, but:


C'mon, it was a fun challenge that no one had attempted. The $500 was just a deduction from the team's entrance fee next year (and they didn't even get it).
MOV F1-1: 124
MOV F1-2: 121

In terms of this years' game, that 3 point difference is negligible. They did the same; no defense didnt help them.
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  #210   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-03-2014, 16:51
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Re: 301 points! and could have done more

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
In terms of this years' game, that 3 point difference is negligible. They did the same; no defense didnt help them.
That's one metric. Blue scored 44.9% of red's score in the first finals match, and 59.8% in the second. They also scored 78% more points.
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