North Star Regional...

[Bryan Herbst]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Field was stuck at Customs coming from the Waterloo Event last week.

We don't actually know why it was so late, and likely never will. We heard a lot of conflicting information from the shipping company, which makes it unlikely that the cause was simply customs. It is certainly possible though!

Originally Posted by Kingland093

Interesting. 10k had very little compared to what I've seen in previous weeks

10k was pretty comparable to the Duluth regionals and, from what I have heard, North Star. We had mostly the same issues- loose wires, batteries not secured properly, bad ethernet ports on driver's stations.

[FRC3883FRC]

Team 3883 had a great time at the regional. We had a solid alliance going into the elims but the number one seed was just a little better. Thanks to 2491 and 2220 for the great matches.

The day 3 3883 highlight video is done. If you stick around till the end there is some great bonus dancing going on.
3883 Day 3 Highlights

[audietron]

Originally Posted by FRC3883FRC

Team 3883 had a great time at the regional. We had a solid alliance going into the elims but the number one seed was just a little better. Thanks to 2491 and 2220 for the great matches.

The day 3 3883 highlight video is done. If you stick around till the end there is some great bonus dancing going on.
3883 Day 3 Highlights

We thought your robot was one of the best, We were really surprised you didn't get picked earlier. The quarterfinals were some really good matches and i think is what FIRST had in mind when designing the game.

Our Elimination alliance was exactly what we wanted with 2175 being really amazing and 4607 (surprisingly not getting picked earlier) was our number 1 choice for the 2nd pick.

We hoped for a repeat but unfortunately we got beat out in the semifinals due to some extremely tough defense. 4778, 3042, and 2177 all played very well and good luck at worlds.

Rookie all-Star winner 5339 was truly a great team to be around, they show the ambition and values of FIRST incredibly well. We will be seeing some great robots from them in the future.

[Jon Stratis]

Just about everyone I talked to was surprised 4607 didn't get picked earlier. There was a solid chunk of time where some of us watching from behind the scoring table were saying "well, they have to be picked this time!" It was almost comical to watch your team rep when the number 2 seed made their second pick - I honestly thought your guy was going to start jumping around he looked so happy.

This game was certainly designed for the elimination matches - some of the quals were almost painful to watch when robots weren't working or teams weren't communicating well... but in the eliminations the alliances get their act together and play an amazing game - It didn't matter who was on the field, you knew it was going to be exciting!

[SoMe_DuDe904]

I just want to congratulate my alma mater 2169 for thier 5th chairmans award in their 8th year as a team. You guys make me proud to be a KING TeC alumnist! This was our goal when we formed this team back in 2007.

21!!!!!
69!!!!!

[Trent B]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

It didn't matter who was on the field, you knew it was going to be exciting!

This is a tremendous understatement. It was incredibly difficult to predict the outcomes of elimination matches. I often thought one team was going to emerge victorious, only to have the other team suddenly surge ahead.

[fr05ty27355]

Originally Posted by SoMe_DuDe904

I just want to congratulate my alma mater 2169 for thier 5th chairmans award in their 8th year as a team. You guys make me proud to be a KING TeC alumnist! This was our goal when we formed this team back in 2007.

21!!!!!
69!!!!!

I'll second that

[Ginger Power]

Thanks everybody for the compliments! I think the reason we were passed over was because of the fact that we were severely limited for our first 4 matches due to faulty pwm cables. After we were fully functional the alliance we were on never failed to break 100 pts (except qualification match 94 in which one of our alliance partners broke down). It sucks that we can't truly show what our robot can do unless we qualify for the Minnesota State Championship (which based on my knowledge of the scoring system it is unlikely that we will make it). We were having slight difficulties with slop in our winch which limited our shot to about 30 feet. Ideally we would have been able to shoot full court to the human player without ever having to leave our corner by the 1 pt goal (a 50'+ shot which we advertised to pit scouts). If by some miracle we do qualify for the MSHSL tournament watch out for C.I.S.!

A big thanks to 967 and 2175 for picking us 2 years in a row! It was unbelievably fun working with your drive teams as we communicated better than any other team in any sport I've ever been apart of. The only smile bigger than the Iron Lions' team representative was my smile as I accepted the invitation. The past 2 years in FRC have truly changed my life and I'm looking forward to what the future holds for me as I hope to start more FRC teams around Minnesnowta.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Well, being passed over wasn't a bad thing. It gave us a chance to compete alongside 967 and 2175 again!

Much thanks to all the volunteers, judges, inspectors, and officials that make an FRC event possible - especially North Star possible.

A special thanks to FRC Team 2175 - you have helped out 4607 in many ways in the last year, we really appreciate how you have taken us under your wing. Also, a special thanks to Mr. Will Preska - I know my drive team appreciated the perspective you offered up after the tough loss.

Thanks also to 967 - it was awesome watching the teams play so well together. Hopefully there is another chance in the future to work alongside the Iron Lions.

Good luck to those that qualified for the Championships!

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by Trent B

Is it just me or have there been a lot of connection issues at this regional? I've seen a lot of robots stopping suddenly in the middle of matches and coming back a time later.

I'm not sure if this is just a result of all the rough defense and has occurred at other regionals or not.

Admittedly I haven't kept up with other regionals very well.

I can't speak for the two instances in quarterfinals, but I our two problem matches in the semifinals were not connection issues. In SF 1-2 we tipped over due to our high CG and some reckless driving, and were obviously incapacitated for the remainder of the match. In SF 1-3, if you watch, we are still connected and controlling our robot. The shield had come off the guardrail and the 2" steel hooks that hold it on got our robot stuck on the field, flailing pretty pathetically just in front of the low goal. Why this was not considered a field fault and the match replayed, I will never know. A big shame too, that 967 didn't get a chance to fight it out fairly, especially considering their phenomenal performance in the matches just before that, and throughout qualifications the last two days. Without a doubt the best robot at the event, and they didn't get their chance to qualify for Champs.

[Jon Stratis]

The head ref declared it to be "field debris", similar to a dead ball that comes loose and starts bouncing around. It all depends on whether the head ref determines something like that to be "field debris" or a "field fault".

It's a tricky situation, to be sure...

We don't replay matches when parts break off a robot and sit on the field, even if another robot ends up getting stuck on them - that's just "field debris".

All cases of "field fault" I've witnessed were caused by the FMS barfing - either crashing or causing issues with the pedestal lights or issues with scoring that couldn't be resolved after the fact.

I don't know that I've ever seen part of the field come loose and interfere with robot performance before. It is unfortunate, I think everyone there would have liked to see a nice clean match to decide things in the semi's... but as I told my kids when they had calls go against them "That's how the game works. Time to move on and prep for whatever is next".

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

The head ref declared it to be "field debris", similar to a dead ball that comes loose and starts bouncing around. It all depends on whether the head ref determines something like that to be "field debris" or a "field fault".

It's a tricky situation, to be sure...

We don't replay matches when parts break off a robot and sit on the field, even if another robot ends up getting stuck on them - that's just "field debris".

All cases of "field fault" I've witnessed were caused by the FMS barfing - either crashing or causing issues with the pedestal lights or issues with scoring that couldn't be resolved after the fact.

I don't know that I've ever seen part of the field come loose and interfere with robot performance before. It is unfortunate, I think everyone there would have liked to see a nice clean match to decide things in the semi's... but as I told my kids when they had calls go against them "That's how the game works. Time to move on and prep for whatever is next".

Doesn't seem like a terribly tricky situation. Standard practice is to zip tie the guardrail shields in place before the match starts, and a volunteer did so immediately after SF 1-3. We design our robots not to damage balls, and it's pretty easy to see when a deflated ball is posing a hazard as "field debris." Pieces of other robots are coming off because of their own construction and robot interactions, and have nothing to do with FIRST. But when the field falls apart due to minor incidental contact with a robot's bumper and affects the outcome of a match, that is nothing other than a field fault. Unless you want to design a robot that can drive on a field covered in 2" steel hooks just in case (secret end game?).

We couldn't even tell where the polycarb sheet had landed on the floor until the robot was no longer able to move.

Originally Posted by T16

If, in the judgment of the Head Referee, an “ARENA fault” occurs that affects the outcome of the MATCH, the MATCH will be replayed.

ARENA faults include broken FIELD elements, power failure to a portion of the FIELD (tripping the circuit breaker in the PLAYER STATION is not considered a power failure), improper activation of the FMS, errors by FIELD personnel, etc.

[Jon Stratis]

The piece you're referring to is never zip tied to the field - the hooks are used to hang it over the entrance to the field, allowing it to be quickly and easily moved to load teams and robot on/off the field.

Regardless, it was the head ref's call and not something worth arguing about after the fact. Per section 5.5.3:

The Head Referee has the ultimate authority in the ARENA during the event, but may receive input from additional sources, e.g. Game Designers, FIRST personnel, and technical staff. The Head Referee rulings are final.

For those not present at the event, you can see the piece come off here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnr...Zp85I9lC#t=117

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

The piece you're referring to is never zip tied to the field - the hooks are used to hang it over the entrance to the field, allowing it to be quickly and easily moved to load teams and robot on/off the field.

You are correct (and this has been confirmed by HQ...); zip tying the shield is not part a standard operating procedure used by FTAs or field reset. Sounds like I was getting that from anecdotal evidence of volunteers doing so on their own initiative. I'm surprised the velcro alone has not been more of a problem in the past.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Regardless, it was the head ref's call and not something worth arguing about after the fact.

It was the head ref's call, and it was final, but it was also incorrect. I refer you again to T16. How a broken field element that has affected the outcome of the match does not qualify as a broken field element that has affected the outcome in his judgment is beyond me. So while he is entitled to his judgment, I am entitled to my serious doubts about his judgment.

It does not seem very productive to quiet the issue. I am not asking for a recall. Never once did I complain about how this affected my team. Fortunately, we had already qualified for the Championship. But some other teams were not so fortunate, and were very adversely by several questionable decisions by the refs, for which they showed no accountability. And I never said that 967, with our help, should have won the Semifinals. The opposing alliance played some amazing defense, though I challenge anyone to tell me that playing 2 on 3 in this is not a severe disadvantage. But you're suggesting they didn't even deserve a fair shot. And when a team of that caliber that has worked so hard all season and lost their chance at qualification to poor officiation, that is very unfortunate. It's not worth not arguing about after the fact. This sort of thing is bad for FIRST and I would like for it not to continue.

[JeremyLansing]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

<snip>
Regardless, it was the head ref's call and not something worth arguing about after the fact. Per section 5.5.3:
<snip>

Perhaps not worth arguing about, but its worth discussing. I'll admit I do have a certain bias, but I struggle to see how this doesn't qualify as a Arena Fault given that it is broken field element (the shield came off), and it most certainly affected the outcome. If we don't talk about it after the fact how can we learn? The piece of the field border they caught on does not have to hang loose, since the velcro was not enough in this case then stronger measures need to be taken to secure this piece of the field border. I don't expect the head ref to come on Chief Delphi and say he changed his mind, but if there is some way to prevent this in the future, then it is absolutely worth discussing after the fact.

If something like this happened on Einstein I doubt you would say that the head ref's call is final and we shouldn't talk about it.