Use of radios for communication

[donkehote]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

It is part of the "leveling the playing field" issue. Any item that could give a team an advantage over other teams that is not specifically allowed in the rules, is likewise banned.

I dont want to derail the thread but,

Since practice bots provide a significant, undeniable advantage, shouldn't they be banned by the same logic, as part of "Leveling the playing field"?

-Puts on suit of armor and runs away-

Edit- To clarify, I mean practice bots overall, not bringing them to competition, Im fully aware the are illegal in the pits.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Teams aren't supposed to use them but I have seen quite a few teams with them. So who do we report this to?

Regional Director or FTA would work. They then get the "fun" of telling the team to put the radios away.

[pyroslev]

If you want to still use PTT method, Voxer is a good app. Uses Data on your cellphone. I use it when I wanna have a short conversation beyond texting but without calling. There is also bluetooth integration as well.

Warnings:

Careful about when you use it. If you are using it for stand to field comms in alliance selection, possibly legal. During match play at a off-season event, one team communicating from stands to field non-electronically was given a yellow card. So be smart on that front. Read the manual and ask the staff at your event before you use it. When it comes to bluetooth earsets, I encourage teams to take them out if they're on the field.

The app can eat battery power. Between that and my FRC Spyder App, my battery hated me by noon. Also the default ringtone is extremely quiet. That makes it hard to hear.

[Yervor]

GroupMe is also a very good app for getting quick info and requests in between stands and pit, especially if whoever you want to contact doesn't immediately have their phone out - someone always does and is able to relay the information. It isn't voice, though, only text, but proved very useful this season nonetheless.

[kmusa]

Originally Posted by themick07

Terrible signal. We are in The Wolstein Center in Cleveland. ...

Unfortunately, this is SO true.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by donkehote

Since practice bots provide a significant, undeniable advantage, shouldn't they be banned by the same logic, as part of "Leveling the playing field"?

It is illegal to bring a practice robot to a regional competition.

[Lucario]

Originally Posted by RallyJeff

There are walkie-talkie style ham radios, which is what anyone at an FRC event would probably be using - I hope nobody's considering setting up a base station in their pit.

Depending on the power output of a ham radio, its distance from other devices, and the extent of the RF shielding/protection in those devices, a ham radio can most certainly cause interference in other devices on different bands... and even on sensitive electronics generally.

Let's take advantage of this phenomenon!
Mic->Rasberry Pi->Pirate Radio on a US FM band (Repeat for each person)

People only need an FM radio to tune in- Outreach! Just leave a station near the doors outside and set the RasPi FM band to NPR or something- nothing can go wrong!

(Bonus: I'm pretty sure it even violates FCC rules, so you can can get the opportunity to enlighten lots of important people about FIRST)

[BBray_T1296]

On the topic of pigeons, I have yet to find any rule banning them from use on a FRC robot.

I am still waiting for this concept to be transferred to robots. A pigeon can identify a red ball, right? that is all you need (well, a blue ball pecking pigeon as well)

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Teams aren't supposed to use them but I have seen quite a few teams with them. So who do we report this to?

If you see a team using radios to communicate, go to the Regional Director or Event Coordinator (In Districts, there is no RD to speak of, but there are local event leads). It is (as has been outlined already) against the "At the Event" rules (Section 4 of the manual) and it's on the event to speak to the team and inform them of said rule violation.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by BBray_T1296

On the topic of pigeons, I have yet to find any rule banning them from use on a FRC robot.

I am still waiting for this concept to be transferred to robots. A pigeon can identify a red ball, right? that is all you need (well, a blue ball pecking pigeon as well)

R34 disallows pigeons on the ROBOT, as it a non-electrical source of energy that is not one of the 3 allowed (compressed air, change in CoG, deformation of robot parts).

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by BigJ

R34 disallows pigeons on the ROBOT, as it a non-electrical source of energy that is not one of the 3 allowed (compressed air, change in CoG, deformation of robot parts).

Also, I'd like to (and I think Big Al would like to as well) meet an inspector who thinks a pigeon is safe under R8.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I was thinking it was more likely to come under the "contaminating the field" rules. In Chicago there is a local ordinace to prevent feeding the pigeons.

[Solidstate89]

Originally Posted by Tungrus

Hotspots using cell phones and similar technology creates interference too! PLEASE PLEASE do not mess our robots! Get pigeons if you can but no walkie-talkie!

They don't operate on even remotely the same frequency. There would be little to no interference between the WiFi that the robots use (I believe they operate on the 5Ghz channel) and the frequency that any cell phone would use over its cellular connection that can range anywhere from 700-800Mhz, to as high as 1700Mhz or even 2100Mhz - all depending on your carrier.

This if of course, assuming proper shielding was used in the cell phones and hotspots to reduce RF leakage.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by Solidstate89

They don't operate on even remotely the same frequency. There would be little to no interference between the WiFi that the robots use (I believe they operate on the 5Ghz channel) and the frequency that any cell phone would use over its cellular connection that can range anywhere from 700-800Mhz, to as high as 1700Mhz or even 2100Mhz - all depending on your carrier.

This if of course, assuming proper shielding was used in the cell phones and hotspots to reduce RF leakage.

Sorry, Solid, That is not the way interference works. The third harmonic of 1700 MHz is right in the band. All it needs is a non-linear mixer and voila, interference. Loose aluminum hardware makes a great non-linear mixer. High power RF mixing in the input to a receiver can also produce the same effect. 800 + 2*2100 also comes out on a frequency that can interfere.

[Solidstate89]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Sorry, Solid, That is not the way interference works. The third harmonic of 1700 MHz is right in the band. All it needs is a non-linear mixer and voila, interference. Loose aluminum hardware makes a great non-linear mixer. High power RF mixing in the input to a receiver can also produce the same effect. 800 + 2*2100 also comes out on a frequency that can interfere.

*nods*

Good to know.