Missed auto ball scoring errors

[Anupam Goli]

While at the Peachtree Regional, I noticed in a couple of matches in quals that the missed auto balls that got scored in teleop were still given 15 points per ball, and those points were in the auto points category. I was scouting in those matches, so I really didn't pay attention the scores until I saw a match where no robot had made any of their auto shots, but one alliance had gotten 45 auto points, when only mobility points were in play during auto.

I watched some of the recorded elims, and in particular, our last quarterfinal match (QF2-2) had the same issue pop up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFCyy...are&t=7h23m52s

The blue auto balls that were missed were scored as non-hot auto scores when they were scored in teleop. The red alliance's missed auto ball was scored as normal when pushed into the 1 pt goal. While the final score of that match was 133 - 146 Blue, it's not farfetched to say that the scoring errors may have contributed to the loss. 2974 made a last second shot that caused the blue alliance to go up by 13. Our drive coach and 4509's drive coach are smart enough to know, that if blue would've only been up by 3, we would've pulled a defender off 2974 and gotten in one truss shot or a 2 assist low goal cycle to guarantee our victory. In the end, this is all speculation, and we can only blame our loss on our missed auto shot and shooter's failure.

The point I wanted to bring up though was while reffing inconsistencies will exist in this game, scoring inconsistencies should not. From what I heard, the screen for scoring auto is the same as the screen for the 0th cycle, causing a lot of confusion for some of the refs. In future events, I advise all teams to ensure their missed auto balls are scored properly, so this scoring issue doesn't go unnoticed and can be resolved promptly. The scoring issue happened throughout Friday, and several close matches were likely determined by the scoring error, and it could have resulted in different alliances in eliminations altogether. Work with the refs to make the gameplay as smooth as possible.

-Anupam G

[SteveGPage]

We saw the same issue occur in North Carolina, but only on practice day. After we noticed it happen several times, we sent a student to the Question Box to ask why it was happening. The Ref thought that since it was an Autonomous ball, it should get the related bonus points. Another Ref, who had a better understanding of the rules, instructed them on the proper call. It still happened two or three more times, but by Friday, it was not an issue. They did tell us, if we saw it happen again, to let them know, and they would correct the score. We did not have any issues like that in Pittsburgh.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by SteveGPage

We saw the same issue occur in North Carolina, but only on practice day. After we noticed it happen several times, we sent a student to the Question Box to ask why it was happening. The Ref thought that since it was an Autonomous ball, it should get the related bonus points. Another Ref, who had a better understanding of the rules, instructed them on the proper call. It still happened two or three more times, but by Friday, it was not an issue. They did tell us, if we saw it happen again, to let them know, and they would correct the score. We did not have any issues like that in Pittsburgh.

At Peachtree I brought it up with one of the refs and volunteers, and towards the end of the day around match 60, all of the matches were scoring autonomous properly. I thought the scoring error was resolved, but I guess it showed up again on saturday.

[FrankJ]

I am glad it was not the margin of winning. But as you say, it is hard to tell what might have been. You a had a great alliance. Well played game.

[Lil' Lavery]

This is something we experienced a couple times at the Sprinside-Chestnut Hill district. It happened under two different head refs (the first had a family emergency, and was unable to attend on Saturday), but I'm unsure if it was the same ref inputting the score or not. The first time was a qualification match where it did not impact the score (thanks to a G40 foul), but we still asked and were informed it would be corrected (though it looks like it never was). The second occured in QF1-3, where a ball was scored immediately as tele-op began after 304 did not shoot in autonomous. One of the students in the stands noticed that the red alliance was credited with 15 points for the score, and their final score indicated 70 autonomous points. This did impact the outcome of the match, with the red alliance winning 132-129. Our driver initially went to the question box alone, but wasn't able to convince the head ref that the error had occurred. He then returned with representatives of both of our alliance partners (3974, 4373) and one of the members of the opposing alliance (4342) to challenge the score again. The head ref ultimately opted for a replay of the match to occur due to a scoring error. 4342 agreeing to help with our challenge of the match was one of the better examples of GP I've seen in a while, as if they lost the replay their season would essentially be over (the only chance they had at reaching MAR champs was through earning 30 points in the eliminations). Ultimately, the replay resulted in a 179-107 win for the blue alliance, changing which alliance advanced to the semi-finals.

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

While at the Peachtree Regional, I noticed in a couple of matches in quals that the missed auto balls that got scored in teleop were still given 15 points per ball, and those points were in the auto points category.

We also noticed the same thing at the Week 2 Arkansas Regional on the first day of qualification matches (Friday). We knew that referee scoring was sometimes off during Week 1, so we designated people in the stands to do match verification during our matches. We noticed that autonomous balls on our alliance finally going to the goals during teleop (during "cycle zero" as it's called) were getting 15 points attributed to them, and so we sent representatives to talk to the Head Referee twice about it. By our 6th match this stopped happening, and did not happen all day on Saturday.

I thought this might be a scoring problem in the scorekeeping software, and asked Matt (at FIRST) if he'd gotten the reports of the incorrect values and he said he had gotten no such reports. That clued me into the fact that it was a referee issue and not a scorekeeping issue.

-Danny

[mutantlog]

Originally Posted by Anupam Goli

The point I wanted to bring up though was while reffing inconsistencies will exist in this game, scoring inconsistencies should not. From what I heard, the screen for scoring auto is the same as the screen for the 0th cycle, causing a lot of confusion for some of the refs.

As a referee earlier this year, I can confirm absolutely this. I know one of FMS people spoke to me after an early match because I had forgotten to confirm the auto scoring. I believe they had already asked the scorekeeper to adjust accordingly as well. It's not the most obvious thing to pick up on when learning the scoring tablets, and I'd recommend any head refs go over it with their crew before the remaining events.

[GaryVoshol]

It's a feature of the scoring system. Instead of auton points ending when Auton period ends, it continues until the ref pushes Submit. (It has to be that way, so the ref can enter that ball that scores at 9.8 seconds.) But if the ref forgets to hit submit, it keeps scoring as if it was auto until Cycle 1 starts.

[JustPlyZ]

Yes this happened to our team as well. During NorthBay. We won the game due to the fact that they miss scored the auto ball, so our Team Captain (Blonde dude, if you remember) went to the head ref and told him about it.

We did what we thought was right. They then allowed us to replay the match, but when we replayed it, it was the first game on the 3rd day which meant our bot had problems starting up. Which resulted to us losing.

No matter the outcome we had, we were proud to say the right thing unlike some teams I've seen during different regionals where they wouldn't say anything. Which sucks to see.

-3571 Operator

[MikeReilly]

Thanks to all of the refs (Jan is clearly the most amazing). This game has many calls based on judgement, and with many robots at quick speeds. It's a tough game to call, and I'm sure they are doing their best. I just hope the FRC chieftains realize this issue, and make future decisions well. Thanks Jan and others!!

[MisterJ]

My team participated in the alliance that Lil' Lavery mentioned above. If this match wasn't corrected and replayed, it's likely that none of the three teams on blue (1712, 3974, and 4373) would have have made it to Lehigh. With the 10 points earned in the replay match by winning the quarterfinal series, all three teams did.

Every point counts.

[qzrrbz]

Just had another blatant example of this in Vegas SF2-1

At end of auto, blue 1717 hadn't moved and was holding two balls, the other ball had missed, so blue auto was 5. Eventually 1717 came to life and shot both his balls high, and the other ball was pushed high.

End of the match, Blue auto read 50!

It didn't matter, but, well, this issue needs more exposure for sure. The importance level only goes UP from here!