Alliance Selection Terminology

[brandon.cottrell]

So I've heard and seen the phrases "2nd pick" and "3rd pick" but the labeling that they've been attached to didn't seem quite right. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the Alliance captain doesn't count as a pick; so their first alliance partner should be called the "1st pick" right? And their 2nd alliance partner the 2nd time around should be "2nd pick".

IE: 1114 (Captain) picks 2056 (1st pick) to be on their alliance for elims, and then picks 1241 (2nd pick). And if was IRI or a similar event, they would pick a back-up robot, 610 (3rd pick).

Is this correct? Or am I just applying too much logic to labels already forged into place?

[Jacob Bendicksen]

In my experience, your recommended terminology is correct and what's already in use.

[BigJ]

I accidentally say 3rd pick or 2nd pick sometimes when I mean 2nd robot or 3rd robot, but usually it is clear what I meant from the context.

[Kevin Leonard]

Originally Posted by Brandon1266

So I've heard and seen the phrases "2nd pick" and "3rd pick" but the labeling that they've been attached to didn't seem quite right. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the Alliance captain doesn't count as a pick; so their first alliance partner should be called the "1st pick" right? And their 2nd alliance partner the 2nd time around should be "2nd pick".

IE: 1114 (Captain) picks 2056 (1st pick) to be on their alliance for elims, and then picks 1241 (2nd pick). And if was IRI or a similar event, they would pick a back-up robot, 610 (3rd pick).

Is this correct? Or am I just applying too much logic to labels already forged into place?

If you're talking about a regional, I've heard people use "2nd Pick" and "3rd Pick" interchangeably.
I usually prefer to say "2nd robot" or "3rd robot" just so that doesn't happen.
I think some people are going to get confused by that at championships this year.

[Dragonking]

You are correct. The official terminology is captain then 1st pick then 2nd pick. People will often will use 1st pick, 2 pick, 3rd pick meaning the 1st robot, 2nd robot, 3 robot.
This may get confusing at worlds where there will also be 3 picks (backup robots)

[Justin Montois]

We joke about this all the time. We use 2nd pick and 3rd pick interchangeably knowing full well it's not correct.

[DampRobot]

I just say alliance captain, first pick, third pick. Saves confusion.

[Pi3th0n]

Wow, I definitely read that earlier today and didn't realize at the time that the 3rd robot wasn't the 3rd pick...

Hm... maybe it's similar to this year's game's use of the word "assist"

1-assist ball (no assisting actually happened)
2-assist ball (It's more like assist -> score)
3-assist ball (more like the first 2 bots assisted the third one in scoring)

likewise:
1st pick (Alliance captain - no picking actually happened)
2nd pick (Alliance captain -> picks a partner)
3rd pick (The two teams on the field collaborate to pick the third team to invite)

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

I just say alliance captain, first pick, third pick. Saves confusion.

I usually do this too. It might sound dumb, but it does eliminate all ambiguity.

[Abhishek R]

I say "first pick," or the second robot, "second pick," or the third robot.

[Duncan Macdonald]

I hear myself saying it wrong all the time but it is part of FIRST terminology. I believe "PWM cable" (vs "3 wire cable" or "servo wire") and the use of "gracious" also fall into this category.

Originally Posted by Brandon1266

IE: 1114 (Captain) picks 2056 (1st pick) to be on their alliance for elims, and then picks 1241 (2nd pick). And if was IRI or a similar event, they would pick a back-up robot, 610 (3rd pick).

I would be ok with this alliance any year.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

I just say alliance captain, first pick, third pick. Saves confusion.

Even though it technically wrong this how most people I know say it.

We know it's wrong but everyone knows what you mean when you say who was the captain who was first pick and who was third pick.

I assume at Championship this year the 4th robot will be referred to as "back-up".

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

Even though it technically wrong this how most people I know say it.

We know it's wrong but everyone knows what you mean when you say who was the captain who was first pick and who was third pick.

I assume at Championship this year the 4th robot will be referred to as "back-up".

It doesn't seem appropriate to call the 3rd pick at Champs the "back-up" since it is a full partner in the alliance and it can be utilized in any match that the alliance captain desires. In other words it is they are an additional strategic option for every match not just in case of a failure of one partner.

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

It doesn't seem appropriate to call the 3rd pick at Champs the "back-up" since it is a full partner in the alliance and it can be utilized in any match that the alliance captain desires. In other words it is they are an additional strategic option for every match not just in case of a failure of an one partner.

Agreed. I'm just trying to anticipate the way we will talk about them. I think because tournament rules refer to picking your back-up when talking about this team that is why we will call them that. Realistically "4th bot" is more accurate, but I think people will use back-up for the aforementioned reason.

[JosephC]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

Agreed. I'm just trying to anticipate the way we will talk about them. I think because tournament rules refer to picking your back-up when talking about this team that is why we will call them that. Realistically "4th bot" is more accurate, but I think people will use back-up for the aforementioned reason.

I'm almost 100% sure I'm going to call them the back-up robot regardless of whether it's correct or not. I just happen to be used to the 4th robot being the back-up bot from IRI.