Go to Post Trust me. I am a Clock after all. ;) - Elgin Clock [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 16:50
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,074
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
So you assume Frank is attempting to mislead us by cherry-picking the statistics he shares? Do you have some evidence for this, or is it based on personal bias and a very vocal few on CD?
I did not assert he was lying. I merely provided some interesting reading on the topic of statistics and using them to convey a point.

If you'd like my opinion I'd currently be quite unlikely to share it given your habit of accusing me of things that I didn't say.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 16:51
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
Registered User
FRC #0624
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 892
Abhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiztobe View Post
I believe the evidence is that the survey was only sent to main and alternate contacts (probably accounting for most of the student:mentor ratio discrepancy), leaving the majority of FIRST participants unaware of its existence, and also that FIRST only posted limited stats on one particular question on the survey, which may or may not fully reflect participants' satisfaction.
I would assume FIRST sends it out to these contacts hoping they forward it it to the rest of the team as necessary, rather than try and send it to every single person in STIMS/TIMS.
__________________
2012 - 2015 : 624 CRyptonite
Team Website
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 16:52
pntbll1313's Avatar
pntbll1313 pntbll1313 is offline
2052 Coach, Build/Electrical Mentor
AKA: Pete
FRC #2052 (KnightKrawler)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: New Brighton, MN
Posts: 254
pntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud ofpntbll1313 has much to be proud of
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiztobe View Post
I believe the evidence is that the survey was only sent to main and alternate contacts (probably accounting for most of the student:mentor ratio discrepancy), leaving the majority of FIRST participants unaware of its existence, and also that FIRST only posted limited stats on one particular question on the survey, which may or may not fully reflect participants' satisfaction.
Ours forwarded it to all students and mentors as per the instructions.

Greetings Teams:
Please don’t forget to send this link to everyone from your team who participated in a Week 5 event: https://www.surveymonkey.com...
Your feedback is very important to us! Please be sure to tell us about your experience by Wednesday, April 2nd.


EDIT: I do agree the couple days after competition is hectic so emails may not be forwarded until it is too late to respond. There probably is a disparity I just don't know the best way to handle this other than the method they currently use.
__________________
2016 (mentor/drive-coach)
Quarter-Finalist-Einstein, Winner-Carson Division Champs, Winner-10K Lakes, Chairman's Award-10K Lakes, Finalists-Lake Superior,
Winner-MSHSL Robotics Competition

2015 (mentor/drive-coach)
Finalists-10K Lakes, Finalists-Lake Superior, Finalist-MSHL Robotics Competition, Quarter-Finalist-Galileo Division Champs
2014 (mentor/drive-coach)
Winner-10K Lakes, Winner-Lake Superior Winner-MSHSL Robotics Competition, Quarter-Finalist-Galileo Division Champs
2013 (mentor/drive-coach)
Winner-10K Lakes, Winner-Lake Superior, Winner-MSHSL Robotics Competition, Quarter-Finalist-Newton Division Champs
2012 (mentor/drive-coach)
Finalists-Lake Superior, Semi-Finalist-MSHSL State Championship, Semi-Finalists at 10,000 Lakes
2008-2011 (college mentor)
2007 (driver)
Quarter Finalist-Milwaukee

Last edited by pntbll1313 : 01-04-2014 at 17:02.
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:01
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,362
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

What I see in this blog post is a 40% reduction of very good ratings and a 400% increase of very poor ratings.

I don't think this is something to brag about.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


2015 Indianapolis District Winner
2014 Boilermaker Regional Industrial Design Award
2013 Smoky Mountain Regional Industrial Design Award
2012 Boilermaker Engineering Excellence Award
2010 Boilermaker Rockwell Innovation in Control Award.
2009 Buckeye J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2009 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2008 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2007 St Louis Regional Winners
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:08
JosephC's Avatar
JosephC JosephC is offline
FF: Breakfast Company
AKA: Joseph Cupchack
no team (FiM Volunteer Extraordinaire)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Waterford, Michigan
Posts: 1,752
JosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond reputeJosephC has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
What I see in this blog post is a 40% reduction of very good ratings and a 400% increase of very poor ratings.

I don't think this is something to brag about.
Quote:
We’d love for every game to achieve Ultimate Ascent-like popularity, and we did not reach that level this year.
Emphasis mine. No where in the blog post did I see anything even close to resembling bragging. In fact, he even states that the results this year are not as good as Ultimate Ascents popularity.
__________________
Referee: 2015 - ?
Field Reset/Supervisor: 2013 - ?
68 Team Member: 2011 - 2013
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:10
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is online now
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,730
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

First, you can figure out the "Fair" responses, as that's the only missing response from the graph. Week 1 has 12% poor, 66% good, so fair was about 22%.

Second, while I don't think anyone's trying to lie with the graphs and survey results, I think they should be taken with a sizable portion of sodium chloride. This is a summary result of a somewhat vague question of an online survey that apparently wasn't well advertised and was not administered particularly scientifically.

As others have pointed out, "What's the quality of the 2014 game?" is a vastly different question from the quality of execution of the game. Also, I'm not sure "lots of people after you liked the game" is an appropriate response to the 10% of week 1 teams that were disappointed with the game.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:20
MrBasse MrBasse is offline
Registered User
FRC #3572 (Wavelength)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Norton Shores, MI
Posts: 681
MrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond reputeMrBasse has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

I find it kind of strange that week four's survey was sent to me on the Friday of week four. We had no issues week four other than not doing so well. But week five's survey never came, and we had all kinds of problems with week five...
__________________
Andrew Basse
Coach - FRC Team 3572 - Wavelength
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:23
Abhishek R Abhishek R is offline
Registered User
FRC #0624
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 892
Abhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond reputeAbhishek R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephC View Post
Emphasis mine. No where in the blog post did I see anything even close to resembling bragging. In fact, he even states that the results this year are not as good as Ultimate Ascents popularity.
I'm pretty confused as to how people are reading between the lines as well. Frank clearly says it's not up to par, and that FIRST is trying to resolve issues as quickly as possible.
__________________
2012 - 2015 : 624 CRyptonite
Team Website
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:45
Aren Siekmeier's Avatar
Aren Siekmeier Aren Siekmeier is offline
on walkabout
FRC #2175 (The Fighting Calculators)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: 대한민국
Posts: 735
Aren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Another interesting note, that I missed at first read, and perhaps others did also. Frank says there have been 3600 survey respondents, while there were only 2300 throughout all of last year. So certainly an improvement. And, 3600 is by no means a small number, though it only comes out to 2 or 3 per team.

Another thing to consider is that survey responses may be biased to the negative side, since people may be more likely to go fill one out if they have complaints than if they are satisfied.
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:56
Nathan Streeter's Avatar
Nathan Streeter Nathan Streeter is offline
FIRST Fan(atic)
FRC #1519 (Mechanical MAYHEM)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 676
Nathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond reputeNathan Streeter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

I've actually liked the game a lot. Yes, it has its points of frustration, for sure... and it's not Ultimate Ascent... but it is very good.

I think it's hard for many of us as engineers and perfectionists to say "yeah, the game is actually quite good" when there are still flaws in it.
__________________
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up men to gather wood, divide the work, or give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights." - Muhammad Ali
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci


Student: 2006-2010 (#1519)
Mentor: 2011-Present (#1519)


Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:57
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,074
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiztobe View Post
Another interesting note, that I missed at first read, and perhaps others did also. Frank says there have been 3600 survey respondents, while there were only 2300 throughout all of last year. So certainly an improvement. And, 3600 is by no means a small number, though it only comes out to 2 or 3 per team.

Another thing to consider is that survey responses may be biased to the negative side, since people may be more likely to go fill one out if they have complaints than if they are satisfied.
2-3 per team would be a really good sample actually. The fact is that it's unlikely clumped to a handful (handful here being somewhere between 100 and 1000) teams rather than randomly distributed among teams. Furthermore, teams that competed more often will be over represented (125 competed week 2, 4,5 and will compete 6 and 7).

This is also correct, negative things are also more likely to stand out in our minds. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/yo...pagewanted=all




Please note, this post merely asserts that there is likely not an even distribution of votes it does not claim that this is good or bad. It also merely provides source material for interested parties on negativity and recollection.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 17:59
D.Allred's Avatar
D.Allred D.Allred is offline
Registered User
FRC #4451 (Rat Rod Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 210
D.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Frank,
Thanks for sharing the survey feedback. Unfortunately, I was not able to participate in the survey after our two events. These opinions are my own, not my full team.

Quote:
Aerial Assist was a very different game for FRC, with our attempt to have a more sports-like game and strongly encourage teamwork on alliances.
The game design was a significant paradigm shift with limited game pieces and no "end game." Encouraging more teamwork is definitely an admirable goal. However, making game more sports-like is not the best approach.

Sports have many subjective rules that both teams and refs understand after years of play and abundant visual references. Having no reference point for subjective fouls or possession calls was frustrating.

Additionally, two thirds of my team's contribution to our alliance was focused primarily on the drive base of the robot - setting picks or defending. This is common for sports but translates poorly to the "sport" of FRC. I personally prefer contributing to our alliance through the scoring section. All teams pour a great deal of effort into scoring functions. I feel some teams were not given the opportunity or had very limited chances to use what they built.

We did enjoy the challenge of building a machine for Aerial Assist. Overall our team and students gained valuable experience in our second year. We achieved many "firsts" and look forward to next season.

David Allred
Mentor 4451 ROBOTZ Garage
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 18:09
Caleb Sykes's Avatar
Caleb Sykes Caleb Sykes is offline
Registered User
FRC #4536 (MinuteBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 1,062
Caleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb Sykes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

What I love about the first graph:
week1->week2 showed definitive improvement. The negatives went down from ~12% to ~7%, and the positives jumped up from ~66% to ~78%.

What I don't love about the first graph:
There is no appreciable change from week 2 onwards.

I do like some things about the second graph, but I don't believe the sample sizes are large enough to conclude anything definitively.

I will add my name to the list of people who don't understand why others view this as bragging. If I missed a sentence that sounded prideful, please quote it for me, because I have read it twice without seeing anything like that.
Reply With Quote
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 18:24
Oblarg Oblarg is offline
Registered User
AKA: Eli Barnett
FRC #0449 (The Blair Robot Project)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,113
Oblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond reputeOblarg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison View Post
Whether or not people realize it's a mess has no bearing on whether or not it is actually a mess. Fundamentally, it plays poorly, the referees do a poor job of officiating it and the field is broken. FIRST should strive to achieve better than that, irrespective of whether or not people think they're doing a good job.
This might not be what you're intending, but this reads an awful lot like "screw what other people think, my opinion is the correct one."

That's not a particularly productive view to have.

I, for one, like this game quite a bit. There are issues, yes, but the fundamental design is the best FIRST has had in a long while. FRC has gone too long with three robots playing in parallel rather than three robots playing as a team.
__________________
"Mmmmm, chain grease and aluminum shavings..."
"The breakfast of champions!"

Member, FRC Team 449: 2007-2010
Drive Mechanics Lead, FRC Team 449: 2009-2010
Alumnus/Technical Mentor, FRC Team 449: 2010-Present
Lead Technical Mentor, FRC Team 4464: 2012-2015
Technical Mentor, FRC Team 5830: 2015-2016
Reply With Quote
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-04-2014, 18:26
bachster's Avatar
bachster bachster is offline
Registered User
AKA: Katie Bach
FRC #2052 (KnightKrawler)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 61
bachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant futurebachster has a brilliant future
Re: FRC Blog - How We’re Doing and FIRST Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
Furthermore, teams that competed more often will be over represented (125 competed week 2, 4,5 and will compete 6 and 7).
I am an Alternate Contact, and only received the survey email after our week 5 event, not after our week 2. MrBasse mentioned receiving it after week 4 but not 5. It may be that they only send it to multiple-event teams once, and hopefully randomize which event.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:30.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi