CMP 4 Team Alliance Strategies

[engunneer]

All other discussions being what they are - I'm interested in the potential strategies for 4 team alliances at CMP. What makes a good 4th robot? With so many teams that will have good ball handling multi-bots in the first 16, what do you expect to see in the second 16? Does a purely defensive/specialist bot have a chance?

I'd love to see the 4 team alliance become the norm for CMP and DCMP events. Would it be too much of an advantage to DCMP teams at CMP because of prior experience?

My ideal 4 team alliance is 2 multi-bots, an inbounder (preferably with truss capability) and a catcher (preferably with mechanum or other maneuverability advantages)

[Justin Montois]

This game is brutal. I think most "Last Picks" will be a decent all-around team that will be able to fill in should any one of the other 3 go down.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out, it adds a whole new dimension to Championship strategy.

[Woolly]

I'm actually wondering if teams will take a risk-pick as their 4th bot. Find a good robot/team that's broken down or had issues (like 217 in Newton last year), and pick them, then buy them some time to fix it while you're out on the field with the rest of the alliance.

Also, the possibility of picking a 4th bot for non-robot related assets such as strategists, scouting data, Einstein experience, or otherwise is much higher than what it would be for a 3rd bot.

[PVCpirate]

I think there's going to be 2 schools of thought on this, either picking for a true backup, or picking for more strategy options.

The first one will happen if the alliance captain is worried about one of the first 3 robots on the alliance breaking down, or if they just want to be safe. They'll pick a 4th robot with the same or similar capabilities as one or more of the first 3. This way, if there's a breakdown, this 4th robot can step right in, and the strategy doesn't have to change.

The other way is to pick a robot that is unique with respect to the first 3 bots on the alliance. If an alliance captain follows this line of thought, it may open the door for specialized robots like goalies, big catching targets, and others. If you have the ability to put 2, 3, or even 4 different, effective combinations of robots on the field, you can play massive head games with your opponent.

[Kevin Leonard]

My thoughts are to build an alliance that has an optimized pick for every position on the field.
An optimized forward, trusser, inbounder, long range trusser, and possibly goalie.

The other thing I think we'll see is a weak alliance captain trying to build an alliance they may not participate in. With the way the game is structured, a weak rookie could get 10 nice matches and seed in the top 8- what do they do now? They'll try to build an alliance that either makes up for their weaknesses, or leaves them out altogether.

If they play it right, they could definitely go far.

[Billfred]

If I were picking, I'd be picking around a gameplay style that was familiar to us from Orlando: inbound, truss to human player, high goal. Generally two assists, sometimes three depending on the flow of things. (I imagine teams playing different games will build their alliances the same way, this is just what's worked for us.)

With that in mind, here's my thought process on the fourth robot:

-If this is my fourth robot, it's probably going in when something's broken and someone's flustered. This robot had better be tough as a two-dollar steak, and the drivers had better be cooler than a polar bear's toenails. If I'm scouting this on the field, I'm looking for breakdowns, comm drops, and fouls. If I'm scouting this in the pits, I'm looking at parts available, pit organization, and generally how the team's acting. Bumper score also counts here, if you're a subscriber to that theory.
-At least 1-ball autonomous. At the Championship eliminations level, you need all three balls in the high goal. If you're at least carrying your weight, that opens up options should my partner's multi-ball crap out. In a perfect world, they'd aim for the hot goal--but I'll take the guys hitting 100% on spray-and-pray over the guys hitting 70% but aiming. Chasing the ball takes too long.
-Since you're hitting the 1-ball, you're obviously capable of trussing on some level. Truss to human player would be best most times, but this may be forgivable depending on the floor pickups of my partners.
-Three-assist possessions might not be EVERY cycle, but it's a card I want in the deck. How easily does this robot get possession? How easily does that integrate with my partners' play style?

The fourth robot on the alliance may not win the Championship for an alliance, but it could lose the Championship. Pick accordingly.

[rich2202]

I'm a rookie for the championship, but from what I have seen, a 4th bot may be desired if you want to be able to switch from a more offensive strategy to a more defensive strategy.

In a more offensive strategy, nimbleness is more valued over brawn (think half back/tight end). In a more defensive strategy, you may want the reverse (full back).

If you are playing a team that goes for the 3 assist goals, then a nimble midfielder that can disrupt the assists may be the way to go.

If you are playing a team that goes for 2 assist goals, and pays more attention to disrupting you, then a midfielder that can set picks, clear pathways, or muscle its way to the ball, may be preferred.

[PVCpirate]

I'm super excited to see how this plays out next week. I'm a huge sports fan, and I think adding substitutions is just the next step toward FRC becoming more like a sport. I'm gonna have to set up an extra monitor so I can watch all the eliminations!

[waialua359]

If you plan to go far in elims, you better have a 3 assist truss plan in mind.
WITH defense.

[dodar]

Captain: Should be the 1st or 2nd best bot on alliance. Properly able to score/truss/pass/inbound

1st Pick: Same as captain

2nd Pick: I think this should be the spot where alliances pick their "backup" for the Captain/1st Pick. Dont wait till round 3 to pick the backup, pick it when there is still a "premium" left. Obviously this robot should be the closest caliber to bots 1 and 2.

3rd Pick: I'd say this would be an extreme backup plan robot. Mainly inbounding and defense. They would be implemented in case you need some defense/bodyguarding or, the obvious, if someone brakes. This bot would also allow you to run a faster 2 cycle offense if pure defense is needed.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by waialua359

WITH defense.

Both playing defense and playing against defense.

[PayneTrain]

The metagame on the third pick is going to be established for the first time ever at Worlds this year. How will most teams approach it? Would you go after a third pick for reliability on the machine? Clearest understanding of the game and strategy? Bring in a legendary drive coach as a ringer? Rebuild your third pick around a set strategy through the early rounds to be used as a real wild card in later rounds? Just pick some friends? I can't tell you what the dominant strategy for teams will be in frequency of attempts, but I have a hunch on the most dominant in achieveing results.

[nlknauss]

Originally Posted by waialua359

If you plan to go far in elims, you better have a 3 assist truss plan in mind.
WITH defense.

Agreed! I don't really see much of a benefit to taking any risks on a broken or under performing robot in the 4th round with the depth of teams at the championship level. I would say that the 4th robot needs to at least be able to make an auto shot, truss to the human player, ground pass, and play hard defense.

[Edxu]

I think that most old teams will focus on offense, while the newer teams focus on defensive strategies.

If an old team seeds higher, they'll likely search for a robot that equals their offensive capability, to act as a crutch to fall upon in the alliance, and to enable two-robot offensives in the scoring zone.

In my opinion, an ideal first pick would be a robot that synergizes perfectly with your robot, but is also able to synergize with the next few robot picks.

In terms of second picks, after the "high profile" teams are gone, you'll have to start looking towards teams that will synergize with the first two robots. For example, if you have two robots that are designed for specifically offense, you'll be looking for a robot that will round out your alliance's strengths and provide assistance to the first two robots (a pure assist or strong inbounding assist robot)

With these three robots, you'll have a solid offensive line that can compete in the outscoring competition.

I believe that if teams are conservative, they'll look for a robot that can substitute for one of the three robots in the original alliance, such that they can prepare themselves for a robot break or injury, and not lose as much.

However, if the alliance believes that all of their robots are solid, they'll look towards a robot that can be switched in on the off chance that they will lose an all-out scoring match, and thus look towards a strong defensive robot with a powerful auton presence.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Edxu

I think that most old teams will focus on offense, while the newer teams focus on defensive strategies.

If an old team seeds higher, they'll likely search for a robot that equals their offensive capability, to act as a crutch to fall upon in the alliance, and to enable two-robot offensives in the scoring zone.

In my opinion, an ideal first pick would be a robot that synergizes perfectly with your robot, but is also able to synergize with the next few robot picks.

In terms of second picks, after the "high profile" teams are gone, you'll have to start looking towards teams that will synergize with the first two robots. For example, if you have two robots that are designed for specifically offense, you'll be looking for a robot that will round out your alliance's strengths and provide assistance to the first two robots (a pure assist or strong inbounding assist robot)

With these three robots, you'll have a solid offensive line that can compete in the outscoring competition.

I believe that if teams are conservative, they'll look for a robot that can substitute for one of the three robots in the original alliance, such that they can prepare themselves for a robot break or injury, and not lose as much.

However, if the alliance believes that all of their robots are solid, they'll look towards a robot that can be switched in on the off chance that they will lose an all-out scoring match, and thus look towards a strong defensive robot with a powerful auton presence.

In your first couple of sentences, you appear to be equating team age to robot quality. I'm not sure what your intent was, but I can assure you that there are some rookies this year, as there are every year, that could compete with and beat teams many years their senior.