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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:25
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
So its ok for a LRI to be wrong?

What sounds worse: a LRI knocks a team out or HQ knocks a team out?
To be very blunt, HQ knocking a team out sounds worse.

But I think Andrew is right. I also think this was handled differently because Frank had more information about what went wrong. HQ can't always make calls like this, but when they can, I'm glad they do.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:28
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
To be very blunt, HQ knocking a team out sounds worse.

But I think Andrew is right. I also think this was handled differently because Frank had more information about what went wrong. HQ can't always make calls like this, but when they can, I'm glad they do.
I think the LRI/Head Ref retroactively DQing an alliance after they were told they were good is far worse.

And if its different because Frank had more information, then why didnt he get more information from the Orlando Regional? This event was never even brought up in a blog post or anything by FIRST.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:30
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

This decision was very professional of Frank. I truly think there was only one solution to this whole debacle, and Frank got it right.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:31
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Foster View Post
Sorry team xyz you missed on getting off the wait list, but who knows, maybe you are now #1 on the 2015 wait list.
I do not think the waitlist is much of an option this year..per Frank

Waitlist

Many FRC teams have already earned their way to the FIRST® Championship in April through their performance at events, and a high percentage of teams have accepted those slots when offered. Just a reminder that we expect very few waitlist slots to be available. The number available may be just a couple, or even zero.

Frank



I am sure this was a difficult but was a well discussed issue at FIRST HQ.

+1 Frank!


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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:31
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

I think FIRST handled this in a very professional way. There will always be people that don't like when teams selectively get invited. But every issue is different and needs to be handled in a different way.

What I'm more excited about is that ever since Frank took over FRC director, things have become much more open to the community, and instead off all of us just sitting in the dark, we get answers and how they are going to fix things. I suspect that they want to say some things about how this year is going, but I think they are waiting until after competition season is over in order to acknowledge them.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:32
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri View Post
Thanks to Frank and FRC HQ for doing what they could to "try and make it right" for 1323. I'm not going to lie, I was more upset than I have ever been at an FRC event leaving SVR Saturday afternoon (including after Einstein 2012). While this update doesn't completely wash out the bad taste in my mouth, it was definitely the right thing to do for 1323.

I'm really excited for 1323 to be coming to champs. Their robot and team is just plain awesome and they will make some noise in whatever division they end up in. Go Madtown!
Ditto to everything here. Can't wait to see 1323 tear it up at champs!

FIRST may want to reconsider the way they handle tricky situations that come up at competition. Currently, it seems like a very disconnected way to manage situations that often have many sides to them. I'd love to see Frank or whoever else at HQ talk to not only FTA's, Head Refs, LRI's, etc, but maybe a student or two on a team being affected by the ruling?

Not sure if this is feasible, but worth thinking about. Regardless, thank you Frank for connecting with Madtown and coming to the right conclusion. Glad we made it to the finals with 368 to open up that extra spot

-Mike
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:36
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
Except nothing went wrong in the Orlando situation on HQ's side. The robot's competed illegally and were, rightfully, red carded. That's the rules from HQ's perspective. Now, as to whether they were told it was ok or not... that's an entirely different issue but is NOT at HQ's level. It's at the level of the LRI.
I see a lot of similarities between this call & Orlando:

Quote:
I learned later that there was some question about whether 1323 had intended to request a backup team, or had accidentally submitted the wrong form, believing they had instead requested a timeout. I contacted the team, along with the FTA and Head Referee, to get their understanding of the full sequence of events. After reviewing the information, I now believe the team had intended all along to call a timeout, but in the rush to get the form submitted, did not notice they were using the wrong one. There were a few brief conversations between the team members and the Head Referee during this situation, but with the Head Referee believing with good reason the team had requested a backup, and the team believing with good reason they had requested a timeout, they had different contexts for those discussions, so the full nature of the issue took time to reveal itself.

The team did submit their backup coupon, but had I believed at the time this was an accident, I would have allowed them to compete.

...

I apologize to the teams involved in this situation, and the community, for the stress this caused. I want to emphasize that I believe all key volunteers at the event were doing their very best with a confusing situation, and had the best interests of FRC at heart. We have some great volunteers at SVR. I made the final call, so the ultimate responsibility for the result lies with me.
So the question is: Did FIRST contact Pink / Bacon like they contacted this team, and likewise determined that in Orlando these teams did NOT make a mistake & were not acting in good faith? Or did they not bother then, but now they did? Seems to me that HQ is making a few decisions this season without getting enough information, which indicates a procedural failure.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:37
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
So its ok for a LRI to be wrong?

What sounds worse: a LRI knocks a team out or HQ knocks a team out?
Calm down. I never said it was ok. Jesus, what is it with people this season and jumping down my throat?

I'm saying that HQ made a bad call in the SVR case. I'm also saying that there's potential that the LRI made a bad call in the Orlando case. HQ should fix this because the origin of the bad call is with them. HQ should NOT fix Orlando because they were just following the rules. They SHOULD look into what caused it to make sure it can't happen again.

IF (and this is a huge if) the LRI knocked out that alliance intentionally there's a big issue. But it's not one that a couple wild card spots will sort out.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:40
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
Calm down. I never said it was ok. Jesus, what is it with people this season and jumping down my throat?

I'm saying that HQ made a bad call in the SVR case. I'm also saying that there's potential that the LRI made a bad call in the Orlando case. HQ should fix this because the origin of the bad call is with them. HQ should NOT fix Orlando because they were just following the rules. They SHOULD look into what caused it to make sure it can't happen again.

IF (and this is a huge if) the LRI knocked out that alliance intentionally there's a big issue. But it's not one that a couple wild card spots will sort out.
Where do you see the angst in my post? I merely posed the question.

Both outcomes came from calls to FIRST HQ.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:47
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
I'm saying that HQ made a bad call in the SVR case. I'm also saying that there's potential that the LRI made a bad call in the Orlando case. HQ should fix this because the origin of the bad call is with them. HQ should NOT fix Orlando because they were just following the rules. They SHOULD look into what caused it to make sure it can't happen again.
I would argue that in the SVR case they were following the rules more explicitly than in the Orlando case. It was just easier to go back and see where the mistake was made. I don't see the obvious reason to choose one over the other.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:49
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by dodar View Post
Where do you see the angst in my post? I merely posed the question.

Both outcomes came from calls to FIRST HQ.
There was angst in your post.
You aint the only one. There's alot of wound up people on the board these days.It may be a good time to take a day or so off to get the blood pressure down.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:53
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Koko Ed View Post
There was angst in your post.
You aint the only one. There's alot of wound up people on the board these days.It may be a good time to take a day or so off to get the blood pressure down.
If it came off as I was angrily posting I am sorry. I simply was posing a question as to the thought of which would seem worse. I didnt feel I had written my post in a manner that seemed to jump out at someone with capitalized or exclamations or anything like that.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 12:59
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

This is the absolute best way they could handle this situation.
+1 Frank.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 13:04
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

This is seriously the best news I've heard all day. Congratulations to team 1323 for a well deserved spot.
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Unread 08-04-2014, 13:22
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Re: FRC Blog - My Bad Call

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Originally Posted by Jay O'Donnell View Post
Gotta love Frank being able to admit when he's wrong.
I don't know that i would say Frank was "wrong". He made the decision he made with the information that was available / given to him at the time. As it turns out, that information was not complete. During the event, he made the right decision with the wrong information (he thought the team wanted a back-up, then got repaired, and changed their mind).

Later, given new / more information, he changed his decision to reflect the actual situation.

I think this is a great outcome.
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