Team 68's REAL ROBOT!!!

[Raven_Writer]

Originally posted by Matt Attallah
Can we just let it go and say "nice robot?" The rules are there for the Judges/Refs to interpret, not us!

Nice robot from team 5!!!!

I second both things Matt said.

[Scott Garver]

Originally posted by Solace
maybe its just me, but it seems like there's just enough space under those arms to let a robot with a low profile slip under them. Will the arms be useless against under-bar bots?

No, as mentioned earlier there are friction pads at the ends of the first stage arm. This pad not only makes the robot harder to move but it also cuts the width, both from the robot to the pad and from the pad to the side down to less than 30in. Also, even if the pads were not there a robot would have to be less than 9in to pass under the arm.

[Mark Garver]

I must again state it was never the intent to stop robots.... The arms will be raised 90% of the time to allow other robots to run freely around the field. The other 10% of the time we will be unable to left our arms because of robots pushing against them and binding the hinge points, but we will be trying to left the arms if robots are trying to go under. At least that is our estimates on on percentages.

The robot itself should be next to imposible to move on the HDPE surface based on the "creative" traction material used on the drive train. If robots can move the drive train, they still have to deal with the out riggers on the HDPE and then if they break traction there, the outer arms pushing onto the carpet. There are a series of tractions that a robot will have to break through in order to pass over the ramp. The best bet is going under the bar, which our robot wasn't designed to stop. Everyone is looking at the arms in the wrong regard. However I will not be telling the purpose of the arms until the first regional, where you will see that they are not to trap or pin robots, nor act against the bar to be king of the hill... There is another advantage which hasn't been pointed out yet. Only time will tell!!

[Mark Garver]

Alex,

You have any pictures to post of the gearbox? I don't want you to post stats... however I would like some one to example how these interesting gearboxes run at the same speed, while having motors run opposite to each other... thank you Mr. Smith for showing us some real engineering and some real friction equations. It is amazing that they run at the same speed with out programming to help. Who doesn't like friction and gear ratios!!

Can't wait to see how the first 15 seconds go!!! I will be in there driving one of the spare robots over spring break. Watch out bro and alex, I might be taking over the drive team like in high school again :-)

[Raul]

It is somewhat obvious that the other advantage these arms have is that they can reach over the wall and knock over bins without moving out of the starting blocks. Nice design; very courageous design. I look forward to seeing it at GL and MW.

I call robots with this capability - DanG bots. This is because Dan Green from our team insisted that this was the best design to knock the bins over quickly and that we should have this type of design. I may lose my bet to him because of your unique design.

Raul

[Mark Garver]

Originally posted by Raul
It is somewhat obvious that the other advantage these arms have is that they can reach over the wall and knock over bins without moving out of the starting blocks. Nice design; very courageous design. I look forward to seeing it at GL and MW.

I call robots with this capability - DanG bots. This is because Dan Green from our team insisted that this was the best design to knock the bins over quickly and that we should have this type of design. I may lose my bet to him because of your unique design.

Raul

Well you are spilling the beans without Joe or Bill telling you their designs... For some reason I can see and another tank and swerve drive train coming out of Wildstang this year... See you GL!!

[Solace]

with those arms it looks like you could knock down opposing stacks without ever really leaving the ramp.....

[Solace]

I wanna see this robot go up against 179's bot...

[SlamminSammy]

This is not about specific rules, it is about the death of FIRST. I cannot explain the meaning of FIRST in words, but I know it is not about exploiting loopholes in the rules to win.

I am not jealous or angry: only saddened by this blatant act of weaseling.

[Scott Garver]

Originally posted by SlamminSammy
This is not about specific rules, it is about the death of FIRST. I cannot explain the meaning of FIRST in words, but I know it is not about exploiting loopholes in the rules to win.

I am not jealous or angry: only saddened by this blatant act of weaseling.

I am sorry that you feel that way. However when we came up with this idea it was not seen as a loophole in the rules. Yes we did realize that there were rules reguarding the midfield barrier, however every student and advisor unanamiously agreeded before we started building our robot, that our design did not violate any of these rules or the underlying purposes of these rules. Therefore I and the rest of the team would appreciate it if you did not look at us as "weasels" simply because we have a different way of thinking than you do.

[SlamminSammy]

Originally posted by Scott Garver
our design did not violate any of these rules or the underlying purposes of these rules

The Official Forums state:

The midfield bar was not intended to support or furnish a reaction surface for the robots. It is intended to demarcate the midfield and prevent containers from being slid from one side of the field to the other.

The underlying purpose of the bar is clearly stated here. They are not intended to be used as braces. You are using a loophole. My original comments stand.

[Solace]

Originally posted by SlamminSammy
The Official Forums state:



The underlying purpose of the bar is clearly stated here. They are not intended to be used as braces. You are using a loophole. My original comments stand.

he also stated that the purpose of the arms were not to block robots. perhaps if the true purpose was explained, it would kill all these negative attitudes running around.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by Mark G
However I will not be telling the purpose of the arms until the first regional, where you will see that they are not to trap or pin robots, nor act against the bar to be king of the hill... There is another advantage which hasn't been pointed out yet. Only time will tell!!

Mark,

Let me see if I get it. A little guesswork combined with some visualization aided by a very tired mind yields the following explanation: the arms are not used for blocking robots at all - but they are used to block containers. The arms on the robot appear to be very cleverly designed to prevent any containers on one side of the field from moving to the opposite side of the field. Try to pass or throw one across the ramp, and the first stage can stop them. Try to pass or throw one over the side-field bars, and stage three is there to stop them (or at least slow them down a lot!).

Control the containers, and you control the game. At that point, there is no need to worry about where the robots are, and no need to impede their progress. In fact, given the formula for calculating QPs, it is to your advantage to let the opposing alliance robots go where ever they want (including on top of the ramp for the KOH points). So, not only does your robot not block the other robots, you probably actively move them out of the way to allow passage of their machines.

Thus, no conflict with the rules. No violation of M-7 or anything else.

Am I close? Actually, don't tell me. I want to wait and see this thing in action at one of the competitions! In the mean time, I am going to sit back and chill for a while. If you guys have done your jobs as efficiently and effectively as I suspect, then all this moaning and groaning about rules violations will be moot. If not, then we should all just let the folks at FIRST will do their jobs with regard to the rules determinations. All the kvetching on this forum (including all the predictions that FIRST will make the "wrong" call on the rules - whatever that means - before FIRST has even said one thing on this particular topic) will not, and SHOULD NOT, influence that process.

-dave

-----------------------------------------

Y = AX^2 + B.... ehhh, whatever

[Gadget470]

Well.. if stage 3 is not intended to impede robots or aide in king of the hill, why have it go all the way to the ground? If it's objective is to just block bins, then having it end just above the midfield barrier would prevent bins from passing. Remember, bins can't fit under the bar, robots can.

Oh? but if you are so far out even a decent push on a bin could start to spin you.. hmm well put something in to prevent that. If something hits it, be against teh midfield barrier.


Sorry, this is a sarcastic response to the answers given. 3am and I'm tired. I've already said my piece that it is a great looking, well made bot. I just think some rules are either going to be bent or stage 3 will need removed

[Rook]

Well I like to see the robot in action. I think it is a well designed robot. Though, it looks to me like at least SOME thought was put into blocking robots under the bar. Why else do the posts come down where they do? If they left an area wide enough for a standard sized robot to go under, then it would be a different story.

Except for a few poorly chosen comments by some. I don't see why we can't discuss this here. Team 68 posted the pic looking for input. Something we say may help them in their match. There's nothing wrong with a civil discussion, even when there is a dissagreement.