Al's Annual Inspection Thread

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by philso

Thanks again for your help, Al.

I studied the Game Manual, Team Updates and Q&A, several times before working this out and will be watching out for the items in your comments. I had not seen any teams putting sheet metal between the bumper wood and the frame so I wanted to make sure we weren't going to go down the wrong path.

Phil

Here is an in depth look at our bumpers this year. They held up really well.

http://blog.spectrum3847.org/2014/03...d-bumpers.html

[DRH2o]

The Virginia Regional did a wonderful job with inspections this year. With all the snow this year in areas that are not used to it there were a lot of unfinished robots. They had inspectors that came to you, or you could go to an inspection area. When there were a handful of teams not inspected Friday morning, inspectors took chairs to their pits to be there and answer questions. GREAT JOB Tom and crew -- especially Chuck - my kids called you Santa

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I would like to remind everyone of the rough game that were are playing this year. If you are playing in your first event this weekend or next, do not be surprised if your robot inspector points to items he would like to see fastened to your robot. In particular, the bumpers and the battery. Batteries are receiving as much external damage from hitting items inside the frame as they would from a drop. Bumpers are hit so hard that many mounting systems are failing. Remember that under G20, a robot can be disabled should the bumpers fail during the match. I have had several teams tell me that their bumpers failed in spite of their using the "lift test" described elsewhere.
I also want to remind teams that any changes, no matter how small, you make to your robot must be reinspected. If you add something or take something off, we need to know what the new weight is and we need to inspect the change to be sure structural integrity is good and no other items have been compromised. This reweigh helps get you through final inspection quicker and helps us get through all the teams prior to alliance selection. This is a very serious issue, without the reinspection, you are playing with a un-inspected robot. Many teams are taking off shooters and adding ballast to become a better defensive robot. These changes are often done in haste and therefore without regard to the effect it might have on other robot functions. Let your inspection team be your eyes and ears as they can look at your robot with a little clearer vision and help you get the design you are trying to achieve. We really want you to win. We feel we are part of your team.
There have been two very clear issues with teams this past week. One is the mounting of the plastic tanks on arms and moving appendages of the robot. Not only is this a poor choice for air flow (the tubing length is excessive), it exposes the tanks to hits from other robots. Excessive current causing power to brownout on the robot. This can bring about temporary loss of the radio, full reboot of the radio and/or cRio, fault conditions on Jaguars and shutdown of digital I/O and DSC. Be sure all primary wiring (battery, main breaker and PD input) is tight, both crimp and screw terminals and the hardware. This is a real issue for teams running inefficient drive systems.
Good Luck Everyone.

[rrossbach]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

There have been two very clear issues with teams this past week. One is the mounting of the plastic tanks on arms and moving appendages of the robot. Not only is this a poor choice for air flow (the tubing length is excessive), it exposes the tanks to hits from other robots.

Al -
Could you elaborate on how LRI's have been advised to handle a robot with an air tank mounted this way at upcoming events?

- Ron
Team #2607 controls mentor

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Ron,
It is wise to move it down inside the robot away from the possibility of it getting hit. I would like LRIs to try and convince the team of the risk of such mounting. When a team uses air as part of their ball handling or shooting, loosing that air will put them out of business for the remainder of the match. Even something as simple as a hose getting pulled out will have that effect. The plastic tanks may fail if hit hard with a metal arm on another robot or in a collision. It doesn't violate any specific robot rules, it is just bad practice.

[nathannfm]

Al,

Could you give guidance on a mounting system like this, mainly the part in red: http://screencloud.net/v/8UUP

The green parts are our robot / frame perimeter, everything else is BUMPER. We have used the wing nut/stud method before so I am not worried about that. My main concern is the (red) aluminum 2.5x1 angle that rises above the top of the bumper. Everything remains in the 2-10in bumper zone, but I have never seen an attachment method that went above the bumper itself in recent years. I can't find a rule this would violate and our own LRI, Brian Lucas, says it's fine, but this really seems like it's pushing it. I just wanted to get a second opinion before we start cutting metal.

Thanks.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by nathannfm

Al,

Could you give guidance on a mounting system like this, mainly the part in red: http://screencloud.net/v/8UUP

The green parts are our robot / frame perimeter, everything else is BUMPER. We have used the wing nut/stud method before so I am not worried about that. My main concern is the (red) aluminum 2.5x1 angle that rises above the top of the bumper. Everything remains in the 2-10in bumper zone, but I have never seen an attachment method that went above the bumper itself in recent years. I can't find a rule this would violate and our own LRI, Brian Lucas, says it's fine, but this really seems like it's pushing it. I just wanted to get a second opinion before we start cutting metal.

Thanks.

I won't attempt to comment on the legality, but I'd be concerned about how the 2.5x1 angle attaches to the wood. That seems like the weak point. Bolts through the wood are a necessity. Screws won't cut it.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by nathannfm

Al,

Could you give guidance on a mounting system like this, mainly the part in red: http://screencloud.net/v/8UUP

The green parts are our robot / frame perimeter, everything else is BUMPER. We have used the wing nut/stud method before so I am not worried about that. My main concern is the (red) aluminum 2.5x1 angle that rises above the top of the bumper. Everything remains in the 2-10in bumper zone, but I have never seen an attachment method that went above the bumper itself in recent years. I can't find a rule this would violate and our own LRI, Brian Lucas, says it's fine, but this really seems like it's pushing it. I just wanted to get a second opinion before we start cutting metal.

Thanks.

So long as the top of the red portion is completely within the bumper zone, I don't see a problem with it passing - it looks like a legal method of attachment (provided all other bumper rules are met, of course - for example, we can't tell from the image how often it's attached, or if there are gaps between the bumper and the frame)). I will caution: This is a very hard hitting game. I could potentially see the bumper rotating into the red piece, causing it to bend. I would recommend having something in place, like vertical supports on the robot between the two frame sections, to prevent the bumper from rotating when hit.

[nathannfm]

Thanks for the replies, we do comply with all other bumper rules, looks like we will be going ahead with this modification.

Originally Posted by cgmv123

Bolts through the wood are a necessity. Screws won't cut it.

I know, we have used hammer in thread in the other end of the wood for many years and they hold up well, the only problem is that when we want to modify their location we need to unwrap it which is a pain.

[Bill_B]

Looks to me that the bumper is more than 5" tall that way if the red part comes off with the wood backing. Unless your bumpers are already at the 10" height you may want to duplicate the lower angle stock so that the two angle (gray) pieces extend in above the lower green tube and below the upper one. Then slide the wood up a little to give good connection basis for the gray pieces.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Nathan,
I would agree with Jon' assessment of the picture you provide and reiterate the violent nature of this game requires the need for secure mounting. However, I have not seen this method used before and it would be best to ask the Q&A for the definitive answer.

[Wayne Doenges]

Inspection at Championship will be just like at any of your regionals.
If we find something wrong, that was missed at your regional, PLEASE don't tell us that "This robot passed XXXX Regional."
We are all human (though I'm not to sure about Big Al ) and we miss things. Please remain calm and we will do everything in our powers to get your robot passed to play Thursday.
No Robot Left Behind.