No Bag and Tag Inspection at Championship

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

Make that 398.

I agree with Drew - teams had to qualify for Championships so they've been through the wringer already. It's not like a team is going to rewire their robot or sharp edges are going to appear all of the sudden.

Perhaps just make it a weigh in and a reduced inspection, or some honor system form that teams can declare if they made any changes that need to be inspected. We already rely on the honor system for bag-and-tag, so it's not that far of a stretch to do the same for championship inspection.

beyond the fact that he was suggesting less teams and not less inspections...

As an inspector for a number of years, I can attest to the fact that there is a vast difference in the way teams get inspected from Regional to Regional and District to District. We see changes that need to be made at EVERY event I have ever worked at. At District CMP we still saw a number of robots that were out of compliance.... they had all been through two inspections already and presumably should have been fine.

There is a vast variety in the experience level of volunteer inspectors across the regionals and districts.

I can't see not inspecting at CMP. It could result in teams get DQ'd later in qualifications or eliminations when an inspector finally found a problem.

I recall that during the big Einstein issues we had a few years back a robot was found in the post Einstein dissection that had the radio power supply wired to the wrong power output on the PD board. This was even after CMP inspections.

I know that many teams (like 51 and other experienced teams) probably don't need this rigorous inspection because they have been inspected closely and correctly but there are always some teams that have totally illegal bumpers or other obvious faults.

[Jeff Pahl]

Originally Posted by Thad House

Question for inspectors. We are changing our WCD from belts to chain on Wednesday night. If we start on the switch, but sign up for inspection at the same time would that help? When you guys come by the gearboxes might not be on, but the rest of the robot still be fully assembled for you guys to check most things. Or would you prefer us to complete the switch and then call you guys?

As your division (Galileo) LRI, I'll answer this. We would prefer for you to get the robot finished and then come to the inspection station to weigh and start the inspection process. The way to sign up for inspection is to come and get weighed. It's more efficient for us to do complete inspections than to keep having to go back to a team for partial inspections. If things start not going as well as you would like with the swap process, then send someone up to talk to us and if we have a free inspector we may come and start the process, but that's not the preferred method.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Everyone,
I am asked to eliminate inspections every year under the pretense that teams have passed somewhere else at least once. If that was only the case, I could agree. At least half of the teams will be making modifications and improvements to their original designs especially if they participated in week one, two or three. Even robots I inspected during the season, will often turn up with significant changes during inspection at Champs. While we try to train inspectors to see and correct items during regional events, some things do slip through the cracks. You are competing in the "Big Show" and just like Nascar, your competitors want us to be sure your robot meets as much of the rules as we can insure.

[cadandcookies]

Considering what happened in Orlando, do we really want to be reducing inspection thoroughness?

Props to the inspectors at Champs and FIRST for doing everything possible to give teams 10 matches. I'm sure every team attending will appreciate it.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Quite honestly at Championship I would be ok with:

-Robot weight
-Bumper check (weight, height, mounting)
-Frame perimeter check
-Safety checks (check for current through frame, stored energy check, pneumatics power up run through)

Thats it. With the weights being taken care of at the scale, I would estimate an inspector could be in and out of a pit in 5-10 minutes.

-Brando

Add an area a team representative to initial stating "Our electrical and pneumatic systems are unchanged since our previous event." and we are at the same place.

Totally illegal bumpers or other obvious faults are...obvious. I don't see DQ's being more likely as they are reserved primarily for not following proper procedure.

I trust regional inspectors to vet out safety risks, and teams to attempt to follow the rules.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Everyone,
I am asked to eliminate inspections every year under the pretense that teams have passed somewhere else at least once.

Teams at the District Championships have been inspected at least twice before. Yet it it not just a trivial matter for them to pass the inspection when they get to the District Cmp - there have been issues at MSC.

The same would apply to CMP. While inspection should be easier for most teams, that's not always the case.

(Plus teams may have planned modifications to make before inspection.)

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

That might have been the first time a team not competing at a regional legitimately won an award.

Who was this, and what did they win? Major props to them, but I'm wondering what they won.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TheCascadeKid

Who was this, and what did they win? Major props to them, but I'm wondering what they won.

I'd bet on "Volunteer of the Year", or a SPECIAL Judges' Award.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'd bet on "Volunteer of the Year", or a SPECIAL Judges' Award.

They won a Special Judge's Award, and they were team 3018 Nordic Storm. Great team, and they've been a key part of growing Minnesota FIRST south of the cities.

[Ed Sparks]

I've been inspecting for far too long and have seen so many things show up at CMP that were just not acceptable. I'm not talking about insignificant things that don't make a hill of beans difference, but things that clearly give an advantage or just aren't safe.

How would you feel as a competitor if a robot or robots won the CMP with a device that clearly violated the intent of the rules and gave them a clear advantage? I suspect after so much work & effort on your part to field a legal competitive robot, you would be agitated. How would you feel if a robot caught fire on the field because a battery ruptured or shorted? How would you feel if, God forbid, some stored energy mechanism released during setup and a kid got hurt?

Inspection, to me, is as much about keeping us all in the same "sandbox" as far as the equipment we compete with. I'm not saying that teams set out to cheat, they just get real creative on rule intent and push the line too far sometimes or worse, they don't think the rules are all that necessary to read. As a competitor, I want to win fair and square and if my team doesn't win, I don't want to see that it may have been because the winning team gained advantage by not following some of the rules. Can you imagine NASCAR not inspecting the car's before a major race?

Last point ......... Too many robots get through regional/division inspections with issues. I wish we could get inspectors at these events with 6+ years of experience but that's not always happening. A new inspector just can't look at a robot like those of us with 18+ years experience and see the big ticket issues right away. The teams that get through to CMP need to know about the things that are wrong so that they are not destined to repeat these mistakes in the future.

[JesseK]

Is there a prize for being the first team inspected at Champs?

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks

the trick is getting word out to all of the teams. If you see a team waiting for an inspector, tell them!

How about taping a sign on each crate?

I agree with Drew - teams had to qualify for Championships so they've been through the wringer already. It's not like a team is going to rewire their robot or sharp edges are going to appear all of the sudden.

At Regionals, some non-compliance (non safety related) was allowed in order to let teams compete. One rookie team had their mechanism extend outside the frame perimeter. It would have been impossible for them to fix it at the regional. What do you do? Sit them out the entire competition? Or, let them compete so they can have the experience of competing, and see how their robot performs. This was an extreme example, but a lot of little things are allowed. And, as Ed said, a lot of big things are missed.

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks

I've been inspecting for far too long and have seen so many things show up at CMP that were just not acceptable. I'm not talking about insignificant things that don't make a hill of beans difference, but things that clearly give an advantage or just aren't safe.

How would you feel as a competitor if a robot or robots won the CMP with a device that clearly violated the intent of the rules and gave them a clear advantage? I suspect after so much work & effort on your part to field a legal competitive robot, you would be agitated. How would you feel if a robot caught fire on the field because a battery ruptured or shorted? How would you feel if, God forbid, some stored energy mechanism released during setup and a kid got hurt?

Inspection, to me, is as much about keeping us all in the same "sandbox" as far as the equipment we compete with. I'm not saying that teams set out to cheat, they just get real creative on rule intent and push the line too far sometimes or worse, they don't think the rules are all that necessary to read. As a competitor, I want to win fair and square and if my team doesn't win, I don't want to see that it may have been because the winning team gained advantage by not following some of the rules. Can you imagine NASCAR not inspecting the car's before a major race?

Last point ......... Too many robots get through regional/division inspections with issues. I wish we could get inspectors at these events with 6+ years of experience but that's not always happening. A new inspector just can't look at a robot like those of us with 18+ years experience and see the big ticket issues right away. The teams that get through to CMP need to know about the things that are wrong so that they are not destined to repeat these mistakes in the future.

It's been a few years since I inspected at champs but I do recall teams with very non-compliant robots, including non-approved motors, that had passed inspection at Regionals.

As we move to new and improved inspection documentation procedures perhaps issues such as these discovered at Championships (World or District) could be fed back to the appropriate Regional/District LRIs and used as a learning opportunity for the entire Inspection volunteer base.

[Boltman]

First timer here...Just two of us me and my son arriving on Wed (rest of the team early Thurs) to un-crate and get it inspected.

What to expect if we arrive at say 4:30PM on Wednesday? Super busy?

We park at the team parking lot..correct? Does Broadway turn right onto Cole to the parking lot from the airport not clear on the maps or do you have to go all the way around?

Is there a huge line just to get in after we park? Robot is already there I think.

Anything else we should know?

We already got valuable advice on the inspection process...thanks.

Just trying to get everything set tomorrow to go smooth rest of the team will be very tired next day getting in so late.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Is there a prize for being the first team inspected at Champs?

Yes, you don't have to wait in line for the next available inspector