New Championship Layout 2015

[cadandcookies]

I'm more curious about how the extra teams will be chosen. More than six qualifying awards? Just more wildcards? Quantity of regionals increasing that much?

Very much looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll hear more once plans are solidified. I wouldn't be surprised if FIRST was still deciding what the setup will be. I'll have to wait until we get more detailed plans, but on paper this looks like a seriously good thing for the program.

I'm also curious about how much FLL/FTC visiting will be eliminated by this change. One of the cool things about Champs has been being able to visit teams from the other programs. I'm guessing separate venues will severely reduce that.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

I'm more curious about how the extra teams will be chosen. More than six qualifying awards? Just more wildcards? Quantity of regionals increasing that much?

Very much looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll hear more once plans are solidified. I wouldn't be surprised if FIRST was still deciding what the setup will be. I'll have to wait until we get more detailed plans, but on paper this looks like a seriously good thing for the program.

I'm also curious about how much FLL/FTC visiting will be eliminated by this change. One of the cool things about Champs has been being able to visit teams from the other programs. I'm guessing separate venues will severely reduce that.

The 2014 regionals/districts combined were already sending >400 teams.

Several new regionals are coming online each year.

As more district regions come online, you can dial up or down the amount of teams sent to CMP based on team density and available space at CMP easily. Plus in the early years of increased capacity, you simply go to the waitlist again.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Basel A

I believe it's FLL in the Renaissance Grand, with JrFLL and FTC at Union Station. The latter venue seems a bit far, doesn't it?

There's a convenient train system that takes a total of 2 blocks walking - a station at EJD and (of course) Union Station.

2 fields per division? Really? Why not just 8 divisions?

As for 8 (or 9) fields on the floor, no problem. Plenty of room.
Or maybe smaller fields...

[coalhot]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

2 fields per division? Really? Why not just 8 divisions?

Wouldn't it be nice to have 8 alliances on Einstein? It would be more of a traditional elimination, with a standard schedule (no need for a mandatory 6 minute timeout between matches).

[dag0620]

I'm gonna be that guy to interject for a moment and say, just because they're moving the other programs to other venues, doesn't mean FRC is expanding.

A. In terms of in the Dome, we're only really losing FTC, so space doesn't become that available. Einstein will still have to be there. Yes we could physically fit in more, but that doesn't necessarily mean we want too. Noise pollution, and just the feeling of being butted up against another field would detract from the experience.

B. In terms of pits, yes this opens up space for a lot more teams. But also this allows FIRST to add a lot more features utilizing that space, including displays, a practice field for each division, space to make an epic Finale, and other things like that.

I think this move is more about letting the other programs grow their championships/Festivals, and less about FRC getting to grow. I could be wrong, but that's my $0.02.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by dag0620

I'm gonna be that guy to interject for a moment and say, just because they're moving the other programs to other venues, doesn't mean FRC is expanding.

A. In terms of in the Dome, we're only really losing FTC, so space doesn't become that available. Einstein will still have to be there. Yes we could physically fit in more, but that doesn't necessarily mean we want too. Noise pollution, and just the feeling of being butted up against another field would detract from the experience.

B. In terms of pits, yes this opens up space for a lot more teams. But also this allows FIRST to add a lot more features utilizing that space, including displays, a practice field for each division, space to make an epic Finale, and other things like that.

I think this move is more about letting the other programs grow their championships/Festivals, and less about FRC getting to grow. I could be wrong, but that's my $0.02.

Also, space for more involved ceremonies and other such things. FIRST got a lot of backlash for putting a concert stage in the dome in 2011 at the expense of 2 FRC fields, and now does not have to make such compromises.

[jbsmithtx]

Originally Posted by Racer26

The 2014 regionals/districts combined were already sending >400 teams.

Several new regionals are coming online each year.

As more district regions come online, you can dial up or down the amount of teams sent to CMP based on team density and available space at CMP easily. Plus in the early years of increased capacity, you simply go to the waitlist again.

How did this work then? Even if teams qualiied, were they rejected? Obviously we have 400 teams only

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by jbsmithtx

How did this work then? Even if teams qualiied, were they rejected? Obviously we have 400 teams only

Enough teams ate multiple spots.

[cgmv123]

Frank said at his live Frank Answers Fridays this morning that they're looking at about 600 FRC teams at Championship. Extra divisions and other logistics are still being worked out.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by dag0620

I think this move is more about letting the other programs grow their championships/Festivals, and less about FRC getting to grow. I could be wrong, but that's my $0.02.

^^ This. Does anyone know how many FTC teams competed this year? I thought it was something like 2000 but I can't find a number anywhere. Sounds like there are 128 teams at their championship, I'd be interested to know how that compares to the total number. And I know FLL has a minuscule number of teams that get to go. I think it's time for these programs to unchain themselves from FRC and start recognizing more deserving FIRST teams each year.

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

^^ This. Does anyone know how many FTC teams competed this year? I thought it was something like 2000 but I can't find a number anywhere. Sounds like there are 128 teams at their championship, I'd be interested to know how that compares to the total number. And I know FLL has a minuscule number of teams that get to go. I think it's time for these programs to unchain themselves from FRC and start recognizing more deserving FIRST teams each year.

I don't know the total number of teams in the world but I would bet at a minimum there are 3000 +. To put in perspective there are currently 108 FTC teams in the state of Illinois.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

Frank said at his live Frank Answers Fridays this morning that they're looking at about 600 FRC teams at Championship. Extra divisions and other logistics are still being worked out.

Hopefully they will figure out a way so that any FLL team in the world has the opportunity to qualify for the World Festival. As it stands now, they can't support enough teams to allow each championship event can send one team to the WF. Not even ONE TEAM per event. If you are in the wrong event this year, you can't go.

If they can't expand FLL to allow every team the opportunity to qualify, then what benefit is separating the venues? FLL doesn't get to be inspired by seeing FRC and FTC.

[Bill_B]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Hopefully they will figure out a way so that any FLL team in the world has the opportunity to qualify for the World Festival. As it stands now, they can't support enough teams to allow each championship event can send one team to the WF. Not even ONE TEAM per event. If you are in the wrong event this year, you can't go.

If they can't expand FLL to allow every team the opportunity to qualify, then what benefit is separating the venues? FLL doesn't get to be inspired by seeing FRC and FTC.

The reason FIRST gets to fly so many nations' flags over Einstein is that FLL is more globally diverse than FIRST's other programs. People call the World Festival a "championship" already, even though it is not. Losing the inspiration for the FLL "farm teams" would be a poor strategic move. Those of us in the FLL program really appreciate the support of local FRC teams at our tournaments. FIRST has worked diligently to craft the migration ladder. I would hate to see it suffer by a separation like this.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

The reason FIRST gets to fly so many nations' flags over Einstein is that FLL is more globally diverse than FIRST's other programs. People call the World Festival a "championship" already, even though it is not. Losing the inspiration for the FLL "farm teams" would be a poor strategic move. Those of us in the FLL program really appreciate the support of local FRC teams at our tournaments. FIRST has worked diligently to craft the migration ladder. I would hate to see it suffer by a separation like this.

Here's a question: Does the FLL World Festival take the entire 4 days of the FIRST Championship? Or could it be compressed to 3 1/2 or even 3 days. Then, there could be some sort of break and teams could be encouraged to go check out the FRC matches in the dome, since the new FLL venue seems to be pretty close. Point is, I don't think FIRST wants to lose the inspiration you refer to, and I don't think they rushed into this decision without thinking of that.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

I don't think they rushed into this decision without thinking of that.

The fact this is going into effect for 2015 means that there's a good chance that when they were looking to sign the 2015-2017 contract, a city that could serve with multiple venues was something they were looking for. I mean we as the FIRST community have been talking about those events having their own venues for years, so I'm sure the same serious consideration has been happening at HQ.

I overall applaud the choice. I think the "Olympic Style" of having multiple venues in the same city on the same weekend is a smart choice. It allows each program to grow and shine on it's own, while still allowing the cross-inspiration of having them in close proximity.

Plus, if HQ is smart, they'll try to build in a couple FLL events at EJD/AC so they kids will get to see the big robots.