Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

[rich2202]

Originally Posted by Madison

Offering makeovers is, instead, a way of preying upon girls' insecurities

Why is that any different from offering study classes for the AP test? Or a coach helping a student excel at a sport? If someone wants to get help/suggestions from someone who knows a lot more, then why not?

and suggesting that, despite whatever success they may have had on their team and at the event, they will be better off still if they conform to some societal ideal of beauty.

I would posit that the ladies who have already joined First are already somewhat immune from social pressures.

The question is: How do you approach the next level of ladies: Those who are interested in First/Stem, but are sensitive to social pressure?

Those ladies already feel the social pressure to conform to "societal ideal of beauty", so nothing is lost if you can show that that part of their life does not change, but they can also be part of First/Stem. In fact, she may be able to use her First/Stem training to improve products that help her to conform to societal ideal of beauty.

If a lady wants to be feminine, then there is no reason to not let her be what she wants to be. Trying to appear "neutral" is just as much damaging to the lady that is dissuaded from being what she wants to be.

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Why is that any different from offering study classes for the AP test? Or a coach helping a student excel at a sport? If someone wants to get help/suggestions from someone who knows a lot more, then why not?

If there were a golf coach helping people with their putting in the pits, that would make just about as much sense as this.

[CENTURION]

Originally Posted by rich2202

Why is that any different from offering study classes for the AP test? Or a coach helping a student excel at a sport? If someone wants to get help/suggestions from someone who knows a lot more, then why not?

[snip]

Well, learning is one thing; learning is fixing ignorance. Offering a makeover is sort of implying that there's something inherently wrong with the way your face is. But I may be biased, as I'm not a fan of makeup in general.

[Chris Fultz]

Lynn is a very successful business person and has excelled in a part of the world dominated by men. She is very good at what she does and she is very clear and direct in her dealings.

I heard her message, and my interpretation was if you feel comfortable and confident, you can achieve more.

She didn't say you have to wear make-up or a certain type of clothes, she didn't say wear cosmetics so that people will like you, she didn't say dress or look a certain way. She simply said feel confident - whatever that means to you and however you achieve that.

[JaneYoung]

Hi all,

I posted the following in a friend's discussion in Facebook and decided to add it to this thread as well.

" Just a comment here:

Women and girls in shelters and safe houses from abuse - are very appreciative of clothing, make up, hair styling, and feminine hygiene products. How do I know this? 418 worked with a woman who founded a charity to help the homeless and, in particular, young teenage girls, for several years.
I've worked with, and supported, Safe Place here in Austin.

Furthermore, we all know about girls on teams and the wide spectrum of self-esteem and acceptance.

If the booth is popular, it could have a positive impact. The wise team will interview the girls and the people in the company and get some feedback before bringing judgment. Just sayin'."

In the last paragraph, I talk about a 'wise team' interviewing the girls and the folks who are working the booth during this event. It's actually a pretty awesome concept and would open up the impact viewpoint like crazy, providing insight many of us have never thought about. Anytime anyone feels better about themselves, it is a good thing.

I've often wondered how to help boost the self-esteem of girls on teams and if we can do more to help them see a future in the STEM programs - envisioning their place.

Let's not be so quick to judge and, instead, wait for some feedback from the opportunity. Also, this opportunity runs both ways: the company is sure to be impacted by the amazing girls in FIRST. It is bound to be an eye-opening experience for the company, just as it has been for other folks outside of the STEM bubble. Let's pop it and see what happens.

Jane

[Botwoon]

This could be an unpopular opinion, but I couldn't care less about what FIRST sponsors advertise providing that we aren't being led to believe that hollywood makeovers are relevant to what my team is doing.

[Jon Stratis]

Obviously, as a guy my opinion on this topic doesn't have much impact...

That said, one of my students, Madeleine, won Dean's List this year and had a chance to meet and talk with Lynn Tilton. From what she told me, she came away from it incredibly inspired. Having such a great role model involved in FIRST - a strong, confident female who has been incredibly successful in a high-powered world typically dominated by males - can only help us. Madeleine isn't really a girl to go giddy over makeup or makeovers, and I'm sure if given the choice she would rather of had one of the other companies Lynn owns present (especially if it involved seeing the guts of a helicopter or car). I hope Madeleine gets on here and posts her thoughts, after having a chance to decompress from the weekend

IMO, we need to do everything we can to pull in more girls. While giving robotics girls a makeover might be interpreted as giving the wrong message, how awesome would it be if we could get some info about FIRST distributed with makeup? Imagine a girl going into a beauty salon before a dance her freshman year and reading a pamphlet for FIRST... Could that be a good way to reach someone we normally wouldn't reach? I don't know if there are any plans for further cooperation with the companies, but this would be one possible example of how these companies could help us spread our message.

[Katie_UPS]

I'm sure the business woman in question is very successful and inspiring and I commend her for that. I also am not at the championship event. That being said, what I take away from this is that she is a successful woman who has many companies yet choses to show the company that targets women. Rarely are makeup advertisements telling women "you're cool just the way you are, but here are some products that make you conform to stereotypical beauty standards." I get targeted ads, which explicitly say "look younger, hotter, sexier, etc." The only mainstream cosmetics company that "embraces women" is dove, who doesn't sell make up but skin care (which is arguable half cosmetic and half comfort).

Her make up company may not be explicitly saying "hey we want you to be sexier" but by offering make overs and commenters saying "girls are more confident wearing make up", we are saying "you'll be more confident if you are prettier/sexier/etc." I don't see a company offering the boys a place to do bicep curls, bench presses, or push ups (body building is the commonly considered the male equivalent to make up).

And this is inappropriate. In an arena that says "look, your brains are important" and where dean often says "this has more career potential than bouncing a basketball," we are telling girls that they're looks are still a large part of their value. It's not explicit, and that's the point. Make up is most commonly used to achieve the beauty standard (clear skin, large eyes, full lips). By saying that "it's good that make up makes the girls more confident", we're saying that being pretty makes them more confident (and this a huge can of worms revolving around the issue of a girls worth being tied to her appearance).

[dodar]

Which other of her businesses should she have shown off? I doubt they would have let her bring in a few helicopters.

[Botwoon]

Originally Posted by dodar

Which other of her businesses should she have shown off? I doubt they would have let her bring in a few helicopters.

Why not? Aircraft manufacturers use scale models for displays all the time.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Botwoon

Why not? Aircraft manufacturers use scale models for displays all the time.

Yeah, lets put a couple Apaches near a bunch of other booths and pits.

[Sam390250]

As an avid Society of Women Engineers collegiate member who has attended several SWE conferences, I think this is an incredibly smart move for FIRST. When I heard about the makeovers at championships, I was very excited. If I had been there, I know I would have made a special trip to visit their booth. Bringing exciting activities to FIRST that interest all it's participants is imperative. At SWE conferences we have had makeup handed out by companies in the past because of the chemical engineers who work on them, and I love it!

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by dodar

Yeah, lets put a couple Apaches near a bunch of other booths and pits.

If it's a scale model, there is nothing wrong with it as it would fit between the other booths and pits. Plus Apache helicopters are very cool and probably the most advacanced helicopter in the world. The technolgy in the Apache is phenomenal, most people when they think of the Apache, they think its just another gunship helicopter, but it is much more, just take a look at the link at the bottom. Remarable feat of engineering.

It would be cool though if Boeing had a real Apache helicopter at competition , but that wont happen.




http://science.howstuffworks.com/apache-helicopter5.htm

[Kathysmith]

as a woman of FIRST, I would like to say that I have no desire for a more femine FIRST and find the whole idea that we, as equal competitors, are being represented by a cosmetics company a little insulting. I'm sure that they did not mean to imply that our worth as members of a team could be judged by our outward appearance, but that is how it feels when they choose cosmetic companies and models to represent us. I don't see why we need to be represented separately. I am a member of FIRST robotics, why can I not simply be represented by FIRST?

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by dodar

Yeah, lets put a couple Apaches near a bunch of other booths and pits.

Because, you know, boeing would bring a whole airplane and nasa would bring a space craft. Really?