[FTC]: New Team / New Opportunity

[F Elliott]

It looks like I will be changing schools. They are super supportive of starting either a FIRST FTC team or a VEX team and building a robotics program. I've had one year experience with starting my current FTC team so I'm familiar with the kit but expert on building a program.

They have one grant they're very confident we'll get ($5000) and one grant they're reasonably confident we'll get ($2000). I need to identify what to spend the money on.

We have nothing. No kit, parts, tools, software, or registrations. We have computers. I'm going to start putting a detailed list together but I'd be interested in hearing from the community what you would do if you had $7000 to start a program. Would you start one FTC team with lots of resources? Two teams? An FLL team?

We had a bench drill press and a band saw last year and they proved highly useful. What machine tools should I buy? Would you go for a small mill? There were times I wished we had one this year.

This is going to be a great opportunity!

[StillDefective]

I would recommend going for just one team if you are only going to have $5000-$7000. You can have one team that be more competitive because they have more resources, and it gives you a chance to see how robotics goes over in the school before you commit to multiple teams.

For starters, you need to take in to account the registration fee and the fee for various and sundry competitions. And don't forget about a license to RobotC if you go that direction with programming.

Next, you are going to need parts. One kit has never been enough in my experience. I would probably get two full kits and one resource kit. That will give you enough TETRIX to build a pretty good bot and have extra pieces but you will also need to take in to account extra motors and batteries and consumables.

If you are going with a robot built of almost completely TETRIX, you don't need very many tools besides the basic hand tools you need lots of. (Nut Drivers, Hex Keys, Pliers, Wrenches, etc.) I have always been a fan of using parts and raw materials outside of the kit, they are cheaper, give you more flexibility and let you work more creatively. If that is the case, you need to set aside money for materials, and you will also need tools.

For power tools, having a drill press is great, it allows pretty precise holes that you couldn't get with a cordless (or corded) hand drill, but you want some cordless (or corded again) drills for very quick and easy holes that don't need to be as accurate. A horizontal band saw is great for cutting stock, but not much else. A vertical one you can do much much more on, and still cut stock. (It can be kind of unruly though.) I love having a compound miter saw for cutting things, it's very safe, very quick, and great for cutting most anything straight or at common angles, but it isn't a need. If you are going to be cutting plastic like Polycarbonate or something similar, for cuts on an arc, a vertical band saw works very well, but a jigsaw works wonders for tight complicated shapes. Having a rotary (e.g. A Dremel tool is good for cuts in most anything that don't need to be very perfect. Lots of FTC teams have been going the 3D printing route, and depending on how you operate, that might be a good option as well. On the subject of a mill. I would say no. An FRC team can make great use of a mill, and FTC team doesn't really need one. For the two parts you might need to mill a year, you can find a machine shop as a sponsor and let them make your parts for you instead. Also, if the school has a wood shop, spend the money on buying metal tooling for the wood shop if you can use it instead.

That's my opinion on the whole thing. Just my two cents.

[MattRain]

Like said above, I would only go with one team in the beginning.

RobotC seems to be the main programming software, at least in my state, even though it is a program that you have to pay for, unlike Labview. RobotC though, is easier to expand it, if you wanted to get into more advanced programming in the future.

As for how to build the robot, our team has found that its much cheaper to custom build our robots. No Textrix stucture, other than the mounts, motors, servos, gear, etc. But with that comes the tools.

Our team over the 6 years has been gathering "hand-me-down" tools, i.e. our vertical bandsaw, two drill presses, a belt sander, grinder, and milter saw, that families of the school have donated for different reasons (usually because they are upgrading). We're a robotics team, its easy for us to fix the tools. We have all these machines working like new again. As for a mill, I would say no too, as we havent had one for 6 years, and are fine.

So yes, you could go and buy brand new tools for $$ or go the route we did.

Usually its good to have a few back-up batteries, chargers, an NXT or two.

If I was to start a team, heres what I would buy right off the bat, at least for building purposes, (not tools and such):
8 motors
12 servos
4 DC motor Control Boxes
2 Servo Control Boxes
3 Encoders (Autonomous/teleop functions)
HiTechnic Gyro Sensor (Autonomous)
2 NXTs
1 Samantha
1 large sheet of Polycarbonate/lexan (At least one)(Protection)
6 Regular 4" Wheels, (Textrix/andymark/banebot/etc.)

At least for me, theres a reason for some of that stuff on the list. I feel I have to have those to be competeive, at least in the higher compeitions (Super-Regionals/World), as you really need to have a good drive train that wont get pushed around from defense. (I.e. 4 of those motors go to the drive base, 1 DC motor contoller, 2 encoders)

And like StillDefective said, some teams, like us, have been going the 3d printed route lately too, something just to keep in mind. We love it, just model and print, and slap on the bot, funtional pieces that wont break (if designed right).

[TRWSHSHLX]

Although I participated mostly in FTC in my high school years, I'd recommend starting a VEX team (or multiple ones if it gains interests) because of its affordability, ties with PLTW, and higher chance of being competitive without having a significant amount of resources.

FTC does allow much more flexibility (in material usage), has higher power motors (but also fragile), and have relatively more scholarship opportunities due to ties with FIRST and FRC.

Here are a few links (from vexforum) that has lists of what to get from being a new team to being competitive:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...haring#gid= 0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

[lylecheath]

I would also look at Quarter-Scale and winch servos, in which case you may want an extra servo controller.

For the motors, although the limit is 8 I would get 12. Especially with a rookie team I would expect some burnt or broken motors.

[StillDefective]

Originally Posted by lylecheath

I would also look at Quarter-Scale and winch servos, in which case you may want an extra servo controller.

For the motors, although the limit is 8 I would get 12. Especially with a rookie team I would expect some burnt or broken motors.

We aren't a rookie team, and we killed quite a few this year. The new V2 motors aren't living up to what they said they would be.

[maths222]

Originally Posted by StillDefective

We aren't a rookie team, and we killed quite a few this year. The new V2 motors aren't living up to what they said they would be.

That is strange. We are not a rookie team either, and we used to burn out a motor about twice a tournament. This year, in the whole season from kickoff through the world championships, we burned out a total of 2 or 3.

[StillDefective]

Originally Posted by maths222

That is strange. We are not a rookie team either, and we used to burn out a motor about twice a tournament. This year, in the whole season from kickoff through the world championships, we burned out a total of 2 or 3.

Haha, we are the complete opposite. We had killed only 2 in the past two years before we switched to the V2s this year. This year we destroyed 2 gearboxes and just straight up burnt out 2 or 3 of them.

[MattRain]

Originally Posted by StillDefective

We aren't a rookie team, and we killed quite a few this year. The new V2 motors aren't living up to what they said they would be.

After hearing about the V2 Motors, our team has tried to stay away from using the new motors. Hope they can figure out why before the kickoff next season.

[StillDefective]

Originally Posted by MattRain

After hearing about the V2 Motors, our team has tried to stay away from using the new motors. Hope they can figure out why before the kickoff next season.

The gears in the gearboxes must have been built with a sub-par metal because when we killed gearboxes and opened them there were teeth scattered around the case and one of the gears was broken. And it was the same one every time...

[lylecheath]

Originally Posted by StillDefective

The gears in the gearboxes must have been built with a sub-par metal because when we killed gearboxes and opened them there were teeth scattered around the case and one of the gears was broken. And it was the same one every time...

I would have to agree with this. We have one high stress motor position on the robot (it was a core part that we couldn't really redesign mid season) that would kill about a V1 in about a month, but when we put a V2 on it it died in less than a match. That's right, at about 40 seconds left with a new motor it was already chewed up. I will admit, a large part of this was our design, but at the same time there should not be that large of a difference in reliability of the 2 motors.

[gblake]

If I were given a budget of $7000 and the support of a school or similar institution; I would use that gift to start at least 3, and maybe 4, adequately-equipped, VRC teams, in order to be able to give each and every one of 15-20 students, hands-on, direct involvement in all aspects of an inspirational STEM program.

Need I say more?

Blake