From a Newton Volunteer

[JesseK]

As the drive coach, I try to be clear with other teams: I'm not yelling, I'm articulating with emphasis. I mix in plenty of encouragement before and after, even if we get an unexpected loss.

The worst is when the drive coach next to you is freaking out one of your drivers because the other coach is freaking out at his own drivers.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by JesseK

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The worst is when the drive coach next to you is freaking out one of your drivers because the other coach is freaking out at his own drivers.

^ This. For my really young team, this was extremely frightening. We were on the sidelines watching and our driver said "I really hope we don't have a match with that team, the coach scares me".

[Jon K.]

As someone with a pretty unique perspective, there is a lot I want to say on this matter, but being on mobile, it will take far too long. As many have said, I feel mentor coaches should be removed from all of the programs. Often times the mentors do bully the students, even if unintentionally. I have been a student coach (2005) and feel students should be the coaches. I have had other adult coaches yell at my students before. I was the alliance captain. I regretted choosing them after that. The past 3 years, I have also reffed. This is the first year with this much yelling and banging, mostly because of the pedestals. I would also like to point out, that many times refs didn't score a cycle because the ball may not have been fully scored, not always the case but it happened. There was also delays, and dead ball problems. Referees were asked to do more this year than ever before, and it sometimes had negative impacts, but the level of yelling was a bit much.

As I have mentioned to others, and others here on Delphi, please volunteer. Especially if you think you can do so much better of a job. I would love for many of the referee haters this year to go pick up a tablet at an off season and then rethink what they were talking about. Overall, remember that these people are all volunteers trying to make your event better, and your experience a great one!

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Jon K.

As someone with a pretty unique perspective, there is a lot I want to say on this matter, but being on mobile, it will take far too long. As many have said, I feel mentor coaches should be removed from all of the programs.

As a mentor coach (and former driver), I strongly disagree. At 4464, we've decided on mentor coaching precisely to lessen the stress on the students; if a match goes poorly, it's the coach who takes the criticism, not the drivers. We do not feel that it is best to have a student in that position.

[cadandcookies]

As someone that tends to come across as rather cross when I yell to (not at!) people, it is very, very easy to have "communication" yelling misinterpreted as "angry" yelling. Which definitely isn't to say that during my brief stint as a human player during the 2012 season I didn't notice a select few coaches and drive teams that dealt with each other and our drive team in a manner that didn't seem particularly gracious or professional.

So, from an observer's perspective I think it's really easy to misinterpret yelling, especially when there are some people that are genuinely being problematic.

[Steven Smith]

As a mentor coach (and former driver), I strongly disagree. At 4464, we've decided on mentor coaching precisely to lessen the stress on the students; if a match goes poorly, it's the coach who takes the criticism, not the drivers. We do not feel that it is best to have a student in that position.

Good point. We had a specific instance of our freshman driver getting picked on by one of his friends because he "lost the match". Keep in mind, we're a young team and this was more out of ignorance by the student than malice. Even though, in any instance of criticism by the team due to driving or strategy issues... I would take the blame for inability to implement strategy, or the lack of practice time given to our drive team.

This year, because most of the driving was done by a single driver (the freshman), we let our senior act as a "Jr. Coach", whereas I was basically there for support a few feet behind. He was quite a bit more vocal than me, and we actually had a few instances where I needed to tone him down where he was a bit too aggressive when speaking to volunteers or other teams. Amazing kid, but a lot more emotionally invested in the win as a senior that is graduating, than me... who was more concerned with development of driver and HP as well as projecting a positive image of our team.

Once again, there is no right answer to this question. I think we all agree on what behaviors are ideal in this situation, and each team can work however they choose to achieve it. For all the other mentors out there observing this (including myself), let's not be passive. Don't just make a blacklist of teams quietly on the side, which is basically passive aggressive... be big enough to go talk to that coach afterwards. You don't have to be a jerk back, but let them know that in their passion for (winning, getting the ref's attention, keeping the rookie from doing auto, etc) you think they really hurt a student's feelings. Encourage them to apologize or to watch for it in the future.

99.9999% of FIRST'ers are good people with good intentions that make mistakes. Maybe they won't do the right thing, but at least you can sleep better at night.

[coalhot]

Having been a coach in both a student role, and a mentor role, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. It's easy for a mentor coach to walk all over a student on their own team, or a different team. There are a few overbearing mentor coaches here in MAR, and I've had to deal with a few of them as a coach (sorry, don't mean to insult you guys in any way).

One thing I've noticed is that a good mentor coach can also protect his/her drivers against other, possibly overbearing coaches. This is not an idea situation, and really should never happen, but often is the case.

Guys, this is a friendly competition. Not little league. When winning matches trumps everything, we start going away from what FIRST stands for.

[Link07]

Somehow this thread became quicker than the thread about mentor coaches posted yesterday.

[Tungrus]

G136 & G137 will be introduced in 2015

G136: Technical fould for yelling or showing disrespect to Field Reset Crew.

G137: All team members are expected follow gracious professionalism, mentors and other adults from a team must exemplify gracious professionalism. If they don't set an example to students from their own team or alliance or opponent teams, they will be escorted out of the arena immediately and barred from entering FIRST competition arenas for 3 years.

[KSwartley]

The issue of adult coaches who are inappropriate with their students or other teams is a concern for FIRST. One of the most important benefits of FIRST is the opportunity for students to interact with and learn from adults. These adults must always be conscious of their behavior and realize that they are role models and being watched at all times. If adults are putting winning ahead of gracious professionalism, they have missed a big piece of the importance of FIRST. It does not matter if it is their own team or another team, inappropriate language and ungracious behavior is not something that should be accepted.

FIRST Team 525 had a great experience at the Championships and really enjoyed working with lots of great teams on Newton. At the same time, we experienced some of the inappropriate actions first hand. Our drive team took turns wearing a go-pro for matches so others could get a view of what they were experiencing. Unfortunately, we will have to edit out sound from one of the matches due to the inappropriate language of an adult coach. I fully intended to discuss this issue with the coach involved but regretfully did not find a good time and place to do that. We all need to help hold each other accountable for our behavior in order to maintain the high standards we all expect as part of FIRST. Thanks to the OP for bringing this issue up.

[Bob Steele]

I am a mentor coach and have been for 10+ years now. I think every team should decide what is best for them. There is no perfect solution.

I will mention something though... from a recent event.
Next to me was a very vocal coach... yelling and being very animated.
On the other side of our drive station was a young team...with no adult mentor.

After a very animated and loud and physical match in which my fellow mentor coach was all over the place and actually had been yelling at the young team I went over to them after the match and put my arm around the driver and told him that he had done a terrific job and to remember that the other coach had not meant anything personal from his actions. I shook all of their hands and congratulated them on great field play and told them I hoped they did well in their remaining matches. They left with smiles.

To be fair, the other coach had warned us that he yelled and I actually personally liked the enhanced vitality of the match. I would never choose to yell at anyone. I would raise my voice only when a matter of safety was involved. I honestly don't think he was bullying but it could have been interpreted as that by someone who did not know his motives.

I have seen student coaches yell too and be animated and use language which I would deem inappropriate.

Mentors and students who act in the coach position are all role models for their team and for other teams. We cannot forget this... none of us.

Sorry about pummeling the deceased quadraped...

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by MysterE

#1 - Screaming at the pedestal does not make it light up.
#2 - Screaming at the referee closest to your side of the field does not make the pedestal light up.
#3 - Screaming at the ball handlers on your side of the field does not make the pedestal light up.
#4 - Screaming at the human player from the other team on your alliance does not make the pedestal light up.

I will preface my response by saying that the volunteer staff on newton was one of the best that I have ever interacted with at an FRC event. The FTA was simply Amazing at his job, and understanding in ways that I don't know if I have the words to explain. The field reset volunteers I interacted with (usually those on the field) were all amazing and seemed to say the right thing at just the right time before or after a tough match, which I am extremely grateful for, and from what I can remember, other than one incident, I didn't see any issues with the pedestals, or the balls being cycled into play. The queuing staff, especially the lead on the blue side was simply amazing, and had the patience of saints.

With that being said, I believe that we were guilty of yelling at the pedestal, in the direction of the referees, in at least one instance, specially in our second (?) semi final match, where 971 cleared a missed auto ball through the low goal, but the ball just sat at the goals exit without being removed.... No one seemed to notice it, and our pedestal did not light, at which point we did everything in our power to get someone's attention. Thankfully the FTA walked into the driver's station and said very calmly "stop, just stop. Take as much time as you need to reset your robots, this is a field fault." I have never seen someone so calmly diffuse a situation like that in my 9 years of FRC, and am still in awe. In this case, making those on the field aware of the issue may have saved us a semi-final exit, or a least a full replay.

With that being said, if we were one of the offending teams (I know we were in the incident above) then I sincerely apologize. Our intent is not to belittle anyone's efforts through yelling or talking at a high volume, but in the heat of the moment, when a missed ball could be the difference between ending a season and not, mistakes are made.

[Andy Grady]

Originally Posted by MysterE

#1 - Screaming at the pedestal does not make it light up.
#2 - Screaming at the referee closest to your side of the field does not make the pedestal light up.
#3 - Screaming at the ball handlers on your side of the field does not make the pedestal light up.
#4 - Screaming at the human player from the other team on your alliance does not make the pedestal light up.

Wonderfully put Daniel...here is my response.

#1 - True, but its pretty funny if you think about it.
#2 - Mostly True? I would say the majority, but not all of the time, if your pedestal isn't lighting up right away, your refs are probably either aware, working on it, or some silly-head left an extra ball on the field and it wasn't lighting up for a reason. There were many factors at play.
#3 - Definitely true, and they don't deserve to be yelled at....period.
#4 - True again...though maybe it'll help pass the word that everyone already knows?

Listen guys, its pretty simple...there are about 20 people watching the game at one time per match...seven of them are referees. Its not hard to figure out when the pedestal is or isn't lighting up, because the human players are so darned quick to get out there and reload the robot. I can't tell you the number of times I heard a fellow volunteer yell out "PEDESTAL" before a peep even came out of a drive crew. There are tons of factors as to why a pedestal wouldn't light up, and none of them really warrant yelling at anything but the pedestal itself. The dead ball thing you may have a point with (at first), but by the end, the refs had that down too.

As for the coaches yelling thing...things get loud behind the glass, yes. Every time I have coached, I have warned my drive crew that I do get louder and repeat things, but thats where it ends. What Daniel is talking about is way more malicious than that. I have seen coaches absolutely screaming their heads off at students of their own teams, other teams, volunteers, and FIRST staff. I have seen kids walk off the field crying or just wheeling that anger to other people. In my eyes, there is no place for it in this game. We all want to win...I get it, but this is not some professional football game...its a high school robotics competition, meant to inspire students, not make them cry. Get with the picture.

I'd rather have my students walk away with a joy of playing hard, having a fun time, and feeling inspired...even if some calls didn't go our way, than win a blue banner on Einstein. Of course, thats just me, and maybe thats why I've never coached on Einstein. Then again, I've seen a ton of amazing coaches who do it right on Einstein as well...

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Andy Grady

Listen guys, its pretty simple...there are about 20 people watching the game at one time per match...seven of them are referees. Its not hard to figure out when the pedestal is or isn't lighting up, because the human players are so darned quick to get out there and reload the robot. I can't tell you the number of times I heard a fellow volunteer yell out "PEDESTAL" before a peep even came out of a drive crew. There are tons of factors as to why a pedestal wouldn't light up, and none of them really warrant yelling at anything but the pedestal itself. The dead ball thing you may have a point with (at first), but by the end, the refs had that down too.

I know there was one match at one of our regionals where I said "XXX Pedestal" (I don't remember which color it was) loudly, and had the ref standing about 10 feet from me hit a button on the tablet, glance over his shoulder, and say "thanks!" as the pedestal lit up I don't think the alliance had started yelling yet.

[dsmoker]

While I agree with just about everything that's been posted above, I want to point out that the yelling issue isn't restricted to adult mentor coaches. I've seen student coaches yelling at other students and even at adult mentor coaches, which is equally disrespectful. The problem isn't one of mentors coaching vs. students coaching. I think it's a matter of having the right personality type in that position, someone who's not just a good strategist, but can handle the stress that necessarily comes from being behind the glass in a manner that doesn't manifest itself negatively.