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Unread 28-04-2014, 10:27
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Madison View Post
Unfortunately -- and I'll try to find the things I've read that back this up -- emphasizing traditional gender expectations (like makeup, femininity, being pretty, etc.) as part of efforts to boost interest in STEM among girls often has a negative impact.
Or even introducing new offensive gender expectations like "Brains and beauty go hand-in-hand".

I don't even . . .
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Unread 28-04-2014, 11:26
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

Would anyone who feels strongly that the message presented by this new sponsor be willing to condense the key points into a letter to Lynn Tilton?

When we're dealing with a passionate person (and potential huge funder), that wants to support FIRST... I'd work off the assumption that her heart is in the right place, and try to give some constructive feedback on things to watch out for. I know nothing about her true intentions, core beliefs, etc... and it's not fair to make assumptions on that because of her appearance. She may have some different ideas that go against FIRST culture, but maybe she can help us reach more students without losing our message? I'm also acutely aware that the mental snap judgement I made when I saw Lynn walking the stage during Einstein is not too different than the stereotyping I've been on the receiving end of in the past.

I too had a general uneasiness during champs... just from this encroachment of mainstream culture and "values". I think we all have a personal vision of what FIRST is, or should be. In my opinion, bringing in teen music stars whose music I abhor, or sponsors in 6" heels... doesn't mesh with my vision.

However, my vision isn't the only vision. It appears Dean's vision is to cast a wider net, and I have to respect that. It is going to happen, and all we can do is to re-affirm FIRST culture and beliefs so the newcomers grow into existing FIRST culture.
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Unread 28-04-2014, 12:02
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

I find this whole discussion fascinating. Disclaimer: My opinion is not fully formed, and I appreciate everyone civilly sharing theirs as I think through it it all.

I definitely wanted to go to the booth and have someone pamper me for a few moments. I love when people do my hair, perhaps because it reminds me of time with my sister when we were younger. And I always feel like I am horrible at putting on makeup, but I LIKE to wear it (seriously, how do you keep mascara from smudging?!) So it would have been nice to get some tips. I chose to spend my time elsewhere though, like checking out the laser-etching machine.

Important word here: choice. Yes, the booth was center stage in the pits, but every interaction that I witnessed between the company and students was a positive one. And those who chose to not check it out were free to do so without being bombarded in other ways. They were inclusive, generous and respectful. They were gracious and professional.

The pluses that I see:
  • Opening discussions with our teams about what it means to be female in STEM and business industries.
  • Opportunity to assess our own views of stereotypes.
  • Showcasing a strong female role model in the business world. Lynn seems like a ruthless business leader, passionate about her work and compassionate for those in need. (I enjoyed her Dean's List Award Ceremony speech)
  • Bringing non-STEM companies in to see everything that we do: Making it Loud from the inside out instead of just preaching to the choir.
  • Showcasing a stereo-typically more girly company to expand interest in FIRST and STEM.

Some possible deltas:
  • Inaccurate portrayal and judgment that females need makeup to be successful.
  • Possible increasing pressure on teenage girls to fit in with the stereotypical view of feminism.
  • The misinterpreted impression that in order to be powerful, girls need to embrace their outer beauty more than their inner.

I wish I would have had the opportunity to talk with Lynn Tilton and ask her about these concerns. She seems like an intelligent woman who believes in the spirit of FIRST. I was inspired by her speech. The quote that stands out to me is, "When people feel better about themselves they are more courageous, confident and compassionate."
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Unread 28-04-2014, 14:20
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace View Post
I was inspired by her speech. The quote that stands out to me is, "When people feel better about themselves they are more courageous, confident and compassionate."
If that's an actual quote, I might have misunderstood a lot of what she said. When a video of the speech becomes available, I'll definitely be reviewing it with a more careful ear. It seemed that she was speaking from a viewpoint that I couldn't quite identify, and I came away with the impression that she was trying to tell us that how one looks is an appropriate basis for self-esteem.

However, I haven't noticed that courage and confidence go along with compassion. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding that as well.
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Unread 28-04-2014, 14:39
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
If that's an actual quote, I might have misunderstood a lot of what she said. When a video of the speech becomes available, I'll definitely be reviewing it with a more careful ear. It seemed that she was speaking from a viewpoint that I couldn't quite identify, and I came away with the impression that she was trying to tell us that how one looks is an appropriate basis for self-esteem.

However, I haven't noticed that courage and confidence go along with compassion. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding that as well.
I remember that quote as well, and it sounds accurate to me. The reasons she had for bringing those companies to Champs might have been very good, but it's also very easy to get the wrong read from it.

High School females have a lot of pressure to be wearing makeup and looking glamorous - they get it from Hollywood, from trying to appear like an adult, and from their peer group. Given that pressure, I can certainly understand (which is NOT the same thing as thinking it's appropriate) how they might lose confidence if they didn't have time to arrange their makeup or style their hair, which many of them don't at a competition like this. They put in incredible hours running around at the competition, only to get back to the hotel and crash, waking up just in time to come back and do it all over again. I could see how it could be nice for some of those students to get their hair and makeup done during some downtime at the competition, and how doing so might help them feel more confident while talking with their peer group in the pits.

And there are definitely some (I know a few of them from my team!) who see no real need or use for makeup, and are perfectly comfortable and confident without it.
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Unread 28-04-2014, 14:59
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Jasmine Zhou View Post
...
Thanks to Jasmine for sharing her thoughts from this weekend! It would be interesting to hear more from some of the woman who attended to get their reactions/thoughts from interacting with the booth and hearing Ms. Tilton speak.

My first reaction was I thought it odd to see them there but after hearing their story I think it is neat to see FIRST partnering with more unique outlets. As Dean said this weekend we need to penetrate new groups because our stands are only filled with us. I don't think they are pushing feminism on females in FIRST but it is nice to see more successful females for our students to look up to both in STEM related industries and out! We all have our students who are interested in pursuing a STEM career but there are so many amazing students on our teams who pour their time into non-technical parts of the team and have similar ambitions later on in life. A lot of the media, movies, television shows, etc push that smart and pretty are two complete polar opposites (of which we all know is completely false) but it puts a lot of pressure on females to shy away from one or the other. Maybe this can help break some stereotypes that push females away from STEM.

Only time will tell to see how strong this partnership grows. I still remember three years ago when Will.I.Am showed up at the Manchester kickoff and to see where that has led. I hope we can get more people in these other industries passionate about what FIRST does and help spread our message to their customers/followers and bring what FIRST has to offer to more and more students.

I love one of the remarks that was made about the Olympics and McDonalds. Its interesting how one of the most unhealthiest food companies sponsors an event that showcases athletes all of whom would never recommend eating fast food while training. I'm sure each time an athlete does a photo shoot consuming/endorsing their product their trainers are hoping they didn't swallow. Whether or not this relates to the topic at hand or not is one thing.

Carry on.
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Unread 28-04-2014, 15:07
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
As an observer who was actually at the FIRST Championship, heard Dean introduce Ms. Tilton at least twice (therefore hearing his take on her inclusion), and hearing Ms. Tilton speak on her own behalf, I'd like to offer a perspective:
The theme throughout the event was let's stop preaching to the choir. Over the past quarter century, FIRST has become pretty good at infiltrating STEM-centric industries. Now their focus is on expanding beyond that. They've created partnerships with celebrities, television networks, athletes - and Jane offers an example of industry beyond the traditional tech firms with which we're normally associated.
Ms. Tilton explained that she could have brought in one of her mills, automotive manufacturers, etc. - but those are already captured audiences. Cosmetics is largely untapped with regards to FIRST, and could have the largest effect.
Since she, and her corporate interests, are new to FIRST, I'm not at all surprised that a new sponsor set up a booth (which was given its prominent position, I assume, in proportion to the monetary donation given) that displays its products, and allows interested parties to test them out. Of the 'makeovers' I witnessed, I didn't see anything garish. I didn't see any implied message other than "hey, we support FIRST, and here's our company and what we do" - just like any other corporate sponsor does.
In her remarks, like Chris said, Ms. Tilton expressed support for confidence, not conformity. And rather than espouse the societal idea of beauty, she chose to focus on the philanthropic nature of the product line.
As with many things, if one enters this partnership with preconceived notions and makes value judgments based on those biases, then one is mostly missing the point.
The hope is Jane will help #MakeItLoud
And I don't see this partnership as any more outlandish than McDonald's sponsoring the Olympics. It's all about Top Of Mind Awareness, for all parties involved.
I agree with Taylor, as two of our girls who was chosen to get makeovers, it was nice that they got them. However, the girls weren't affected by it, and one being our student captain, she was more in a hurry to get her makeover done and get back working on the robot. When they came back from their makeovers, they were praised with how great their hair looked and their makeup done, but it didn't deter them in anyway shape or form. Nor did it take away from them being who they are.

I personally, am excited that FIRST is reaching out beyond the typical "STEM" partners and going into different ideas of possible partners. We have variety of girls on the team, some wearing makeup to none at all. But being able to be "pampered" at an event that is suppose to be a "man's world," I think getting a little makeover is fun. I see it as "anything you can do, we can do better and put on makeup while at it." Not all of you will agree with this.

I hate putting on makeup, but when I take the time to do it, I like what I did. (sometimes). While everyone thinks that makeup is something terrible, you'd be surprised at how you can put it on and be totally transformed. Everyone had some form of makeup (face, body, glitter, etc) on this weekend boy or girl. While as girls, we are suppose to have it on a certain way, think outside the box and have uses for makeup in different ways. I certainly wouldn't want to put sharpie marker on my face to represent my team colors.

Disclaimer: this is my opinion and does not reflect anyone else's. I had a great time at the event, and it's been far too long since my last one. I'm back! <3
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Unread 28-04-2014, 15:20
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

Personally I don't have a problem with Jane Cosmetics having a large booth at CMP and doing makeup and hair for those interested. While it doesn't follow the norm we are used to neither did the culinary institute that had a booth there too. It was a very popular booth. Thur, Fri and Sat I was staffing the Senior Mentor/Vista booth that was just around the corner from Jane Cosmetics and there was always a significant line of people waiting so it certainly was popular with some attendees. If you've ever been to Roboprom you'll see that there are always a number of the girls there that are in their fancy prom dresses, high heels and make up so clearly there are members of our community that enjoy showing off their girly girl side at least occasionally.

The only fault I see is that the person introducing Lynn Tilton and the booth didn't provide a little more back ground in what she has accomplished and what an inspiring individual she is. Her story is inspiring and we need more people like her who are passionate about saving US based companies and US based jobs. Rather than liquidating companies her firm revitalizes those companies and does so without off-shoring the manufacturing and jobs. http://www.patriarchpartners.com/Med...raphy_2014.pdf
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Unread 29-04-2014, 00:57
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

Anecdotes and feelings are wonderful and all, but research says that "girly" STEM role models, "do not motivate girls." *

I'm going to make a bridge between "girly" STEM role models, and this make-up thing, because I have yet to see any evidence that they aren't essentially the same thing.

I have posted about this before. I am an avid reader of literature about girls in STEM. I have my own stories and case-studies of girls in STEM, but no two stories are the same. However, large scale studies show trends. Lets take a look:

"Despite good intentions, attempts to glamorize STEM women may be less motivating to girls than more “everyday” female STEM role models, say U-M psychology researchers Diana Betz and Denise Sekaquaptewa."

One study involving middle school girls, asked participants about their favorite subjects, and determined who were “STEM-identified".

The girls read about three female university students displaying feminine characteristics or gender-neutral traits. Role models also displayed either STEM success or general school success. Participants completed a self-evaluation about their future plans.

"The researchers found that feminine STEM role models decreased girls’ self-rated math interest, ability and short-term success expectations. They also had a negative impact on girls’ future plans to study math among girls who did not identify with STEM."

"[The researcher] says girls not interested in math and science saw simultaneous success in both domains at least attainable, suggesting that their lack of motivation was [the notion of the] unlikelihood of combining femininity and STEM success. ...Role models whose success seems unobtainable can make young students feel threatened rather than motivated... if they believe that women in STEM are “too good” to be role models."

If you go to the thread, you can see other studies linked.

One response does a nice job of summing up why a make-up counter is not effective (emphasis mine):

"Girls/women not already interested in STEM almost universally report decreased likelihood of studying STEM after interaction with an overtly feminine STEM role model, essentially based on the representativeness heuristic. Overtly feminine STEM role models also decrease younger girls' perception of their abilities regardless of their initial interest in STEM or personal characteristics...

the feminine role model works for you and I because we're already interested in STEM (and believe we can succeed). Overtly feminine STEM models can be encouraging, but aren't eye-opening. In fact, they're actually eye-closing."

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Its worth noting that just because you aren't experiencing negative effects and you think its great, doesn't mean it is (likewise, just because I think it's discouraging doesn't mean it is either).

Also, just because you don't see obvious, glaring-you-in-the-face negative consequences, doesn't mean they can't exist and that is where the problem lies.


_________________________________

And one last comment, has anyone considered how this will effect male-female interactions? I've experienced being a sexual object in FIRST before they added a make-up booth, which is implying (even if you don't think so) that girls need to be pretty to have worth** (because that is the underlying principal cosmetic companies use to make a profit).


*Are you a girly mentor? Fantastic! Be you! Are you not girly? Great! Be you! There is merit to having a range of mentors to connect to all types of students.

**self worth, worth in others eyes... etc
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Unread 29-04-2014, 10:03
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

Where there any males who took advantage of the booth?
Media and entertainment presenters wear makeup and are very professional in the image they project.
Our team, and I assume many others, have members who have been coached on how to speak and act when the cameras are pointed at them. I would have been eager to talk to them and learn how a professional would apply makup to my face to cut down on glare and what color and style clothes work well on camera.
At least this thread challenges our assumptions about appropriate gender issues.
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Unread 29-04-2014, 10:30
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Katie_UPS View Post
Anecdotes and feelings are wonderful and all, but research says that "girly" STEM role models, "do not motivate girls."

(...cut for space...)
Katie, everything that you say here is interesting and brings up questions worth discussing. I have no doubt that the research you've read is accurate.

My main question is: Does the research point out solutions (don't use girly femininity to endorse STEM) or does it point out symptoms of a larger societal issue of women judging other women (of all ages) based on various kinds of appearances.
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Unread 29-04-2014, 11:15
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by N7UJJ View Post
Where there any males who took advantage of the booth?
Media and entertainment presenters wear makeup and are very professional in the image they project.
Our team, and I assume many others, have members who have been coached on how to speak and act when the cameras are pointed at them. I would have been eager to talk to them and learn how a professional would apply makup to my face to cut down on glare and what color and style clothes work well on camera.
At least this thread challenges our assumptions about appropriate gender issues.

I did see a few guys waiting in the line but didn't see them in the chair so I don't know if they were just hanging out with their friends while they waited in line or what.
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Unread 29-04-2014, 11:46
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace View Post

My main question is: Does the research point out solutions (don't use girly femininity to endorse STEM) or does it point out symptoms of a larger societal issue of women judging other women (of all ages) based on various kinds of appearances.
A quick google search leads me to a this page titled "Engaging Girls in STEM, Exemplary Practice Research on Engaging Girls in STEM"

Unsurprisingly to me, this report suggests that getting girls involved in STEM activities at all ages and explicitly telling all students that their skill levels (in all fields) are not fixed at birth (this has moderate supporting evidence) is an effective way. This actually has stronger evidence in success than female STEM role models(low supporting evidence).


A report on a program used to encourage girls says the following paragraph which addresses getting non-STEM identified girls into the STEM program:

Quote:
Unique to the success of [this program] is that it has been promoted as a leadership program, which appeals to girls who are not already interested in STEM. Through the leadership curriculum, girls learn how societal ideas about gender roles influence their choices. STEM engagement occurs through projects that apply STEM skills and concepts in ways with which the girls are already comfortable, such as using computers or planning their weekend activities. In this way, girls who do not initially think they are interested become engaged in STEM. The explicit focus on recognizing and analyzing gender inequity may assist girls in overcom- ing hurdles if they later enter STEM fields.
And the last I will quote is research/review from The Girl Scouts of America:

Quote:
Effective strategies toward meeting program goals included engaging girls in hands- on, relevant activities that allowed for collaboration. Programs also exposed girls to STEM-related careers through information or contacts with mentors. Informal education programs benefited from the relaxed environment that showed how STEM could be “fun.”
The solution is pretty simple, which is mostly just exposure. I have not read all the studies on the "engaging girls in stem" page, but I'm willing to bet they will conclude with "more exposure, positive reinforcement, and relatable mentors."
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Unread 29-04-2014, 12:42
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

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Originally Posted by Katie_UPS View Post
Unsurprisingly to me, this report suggests that getting girls involved in STEM activities at all ages and explicitly telling all students that their skill levels (in all fields) are not fixed at birth (this has moderate supporting evidence) is an effective way. This actually has stronger evidence in success than female STEM role models(low supporting evidence).
This is totally anecdotal and thus will not have as much value as Katie's excellent posts on this topic, but I just want to reiterate this point. A pervasive belief in younger students I've worked with, particularly the women, is the nagging idea that they're not "smart enough" for this stuff. These students get discouraged when they attempt something they don't start out particularly great at, especially when other (male) peers seem to breeze through it. I don't know why, but there seems to be a greater tendency in the young women I've mentored to feel that skill in something is inherent and not improvable with practice. Working to defeat this idea is important. Showing that everyone can get better or even become the best at a task they did not start out good at is crucial. In some way engineering "rock stars" can sometimes make a task seem even more daunting: the idea sometimes becomes that only these amazing, remarkable people find success in STEM.

Mentoring small groups of people through a new task and sticking with them as they improve on it, gradually reducing your role in the task, seems to be in my experience a really effective way of breaking through this barrier. This year we had a few first year men and women who didn't feel particularly skilled at anything and weren't sure where they wanted to be on the team. I started the build season with them leading them through the prototype of our gripper. At first it was mostly me-directed and they received tasks. As we prototyped through the weeks I consciously tried to step farther and farther back, letting them take more and more charge of it, until by the end of the season this team assembled the competition claw without me even attending the meeting. Their skill set grew dramatically, they took ownership of the project (iterated the design based solely on *their* idea), and they're absolutely inspired.

The point I'm getting at here is that effective inspirational mechanisms seem to have a common theme: communicating the idea that "you can do it too". Inspiration should be making these aspirations seem possible and within reach. I think there's value in showing that you don't have to be a specific "kind" of woman to be a STEM hero, but I think this role-model ism needs to be coupled with other forms of inspiration to really sink in. Otherwise you just present another example of how "only super humans can do STEM".

Maybe a few women who otherwise wouldn't enter our lab would because of this program, and that would be great. There needs to be some caution though in including a company whose business model inherently rides on the patriarchal idea of a woman's worth being partly determined by her appearance. Then again, we happily welcome companies who profit off of war into FRC, with open arms, so maybe this isn't such a big deal
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Re: Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_UPS View Post
<snip>The solution is pretty simple, which is mostly just exposure. I have not read all the studies on the "engaging girls in stem" page, but I'm willing to bet they will conclude with "more exposure, positive reinforcement, and relatable mentors."
Isn't that exactly what Jane Cosmetics supplies - more exposure?
*with the invitation to leave one's preconceptions at the door
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