SWAP Meet -Off Season Event

[Stappy]

I am curious and have a question about swap meets.
I did a cursory search and found very little on the subject and I wonder if it is due to the "no selling in the pits" rules. As a rookie team I was surprised to find no support parts sales at any event. I did see teams helping each other with extra parts BUT I am sure that with tight budgets it is hard to get someone to hand over an $80 motor controller, or even a CIM to help another team. Since we had never been to a competition before we did not buy any extra parts for emergencies and kind of assumed there would be a way to purchase basic KOP pieces at the competition. I have previously been involved with racing activities and there is usually a trailer with common parts for sale.

That being said, has there ever been swap meets held for teams to try and sell old parts or pickup used parts for either side projects or as backup parts for failures at competitions? Is there a reason for or against said swap meets or is it just lack of someone stepping up and holding one? I know as a ham radio operator, I attend ham radio swap meets all through the summer and have very little equipment I purchased new, it seems like it would work here also. Especially if you consider the whole Maker movement and it could be a way for teams to regain some spent funds even to the non FRC/FTC/FLL market.

I am sure I am missing something basic here so I look forward to the very first response answering all of my questions

[Max Boord]

Originally Posted by Stappy

I am sure that with tight budgets it is hard to get someone to hand over an $80 motor controller, or even a CIM to help another team.

Not exactly.
Remember FIRST provides a spare parts depot where you can borrow just about anything for the competition and then return it before you leave.

Also, teams can, will and have lent just about every possible item you can fit on your robot. We lent a team a digital sidecar ($82)this year with little to no thought. We had to borrow a spike from another team and then gave them one of ours when we saw them next. I have even seen CRIOs lent to teams during the off season. The bottom line is every single team at an events wants you to compete at your best and will do just about anything to assist. For that matter, 1592 and 801s robots where destroyed and had to be rebuilt in hours with the help of several teams at the event.

[Stappy]

I come from a racing background and am used to seeing a big parts trailer at races. Now smaller events we would swap between racers to get back in the race just like at these events.

Back to my main question though, how about off season swap meets? Are there rules against this or just not something anyone has done yet? OR has someone done it, I just have not witnessed it?

[Billfred]

Past FRC blogs have frowned upon selling parts from the kit, but swapping or giving away parts is a common sight in FRC. I've probably begged, borrowed, or dealt for enough parts over the years to build another robot unto itself.

Now, does this require a full swap meet? I'm not so sure. I think the only thing you really need to swap is contact info with teams in your vicinity, so that you can pursue a part you need or announce that you're tired of looking at all this [item] sitting in your own shop. Much less lugging back and forth that way.

[RyanCahoon]

Originally Posted by Stappy

how about off season swap meets?

I don't know about in-person meets, but there's CD-Swap and also this Facebook group started by Chris Elston.

I think to a certain degree, off-season swaps would be hard unless you can find a bunch of teams doing off-season projects, because otherwise you don't know what might be useful for the next season.

[tStano]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Past FRC blogs have frowned upon selling parts from the kit, but swapping or giving away parts is a common sight in FRC. I've probably begged, borrowed, or dealt for enough parts over the years to build another robot unto itself.

Why would this be frowned upon? It seems to me a really good way to make parts more accessible to teams with limited resources. Used parts = cheaper. I also really hate seeing waste. I don't think a swap meet is necessary, but I would like to see an craigslist-like website for things like this (or wide-scale adoption of the CD solution).

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by tStano

Why would this be frowned upon? It seems to me a really good way to make parts more accessible to teams with limited resources. Used parts = cheaper. I also really hate seeing waste. I don't think a swap meet is necessary, but I would like to see an craigslist-like website for things like this (or wide-scale adoption of the CD solution).

It looks like Bill's Blog has been wiped from the internet wholesale (grrr), but this thread leads me to believe I was mistaken with my earlier statement. The greater point seems to be to keep such transactions "in the family", especially if money is changing hands.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by tStano

Why would this be frowned upon? It seems to me a really good way to make parts more accessible to teams with limited resources.

Think about it this way.

You own Stano Inc, which makes really cool widgets that cost $100 each (which you get some percentage of depending on who sold it to the customer). You see this FIRST thing and decide to donate 2 widgets/team. You get a nice tax writeoff, they get widgets for every team. Maybe you do this for a couple of years. Maybe you also instruct your distributors that if FIRST teams call, they get a discount, taken out of your percentage as much as possible.

Now, let's say that Redateam sells Blueateam 1 widget for $50, because Redateam doesn't need it, and Blueateam has used (or broken) all theirs and can't afford to buy a new one--and somehow you find out. You donated this widget, so Redateam just made a $50 profit, but you don't get a cut, this wasn't from an authorized seller, etc. How are you going to feel, from a CORPORATE point of view? (Now, if they give it instead of sell it, thus making $0 profit but helping another team out, how does that change it? How about a trade for some other item of similar value?)



To answer the original question, Max pointed out the Spare Parts booth. Generally speaking, the way that works is you tell 'em what you need, they supply it. For motors, they'll often ask for the bad one back; for electronics they'll require permission from certain people (and tell you who they are) and often a credit card # in case you forget to return the item(s). It's located near Pit Admin.

That said, I think you may have found out what often happens when you assume based on experience that may or may not be relevant. It's generally considered a wise idea to stock up a bit on common items, maybe trade speed controllers with another team to get the type you want (for example, one particular team some time ago traded away as many Jaguars as they could for Victors), and otherwise BYO spare parts--and then bring your entire KOP to the competition. You never know who will need the loan/gift of a part.

[sanddrag]

We've loaned teams victors, but even we are tight on funds, and we did need to get them back at the next event, and we did. We've given away solenoid valves and pneumatic cylinders to teams in need without a second thought. In fact, we deliberately bring a lot of things that we don't use on our robot, just in case another team at the event needs it. Our motto when packing is "If you think there's any remote possibility that someone will need it, bring it." Our philosophy is that we always try to help with parts where we can, because it may be us needing the help next time (thank you 294 for that snap ring )

However, I've noticed that in recent years, the amount of "stuff" most teams bring has been on the decline. Even many of the "good" teams don't even have spares of certain things for their own robot, and it's getting hard to rely on others for things.

[Stappy]

As a rookie team we really did not know what to expect coming into a competition. Lucky us we built our robot so robust that we did not replace anything through the whole season. We were next to another team that had to replace two Jags due to a mis-wiring issue (too small wire input). To tell you the truth we did not even KNOW about the Spare Parts Booth thing until States and we were just there visiting.

Like I said I have been to many Ham Radio swap meets and there is more information to be had from walking around talking to other amateur radio enthusiasts then you will ever get off Facebook or Craigslist. I think it would be fun to meet other teams and mentors in a swap meet setting just to learn what you can do with different things. Think of Radio Control swap meets to put maybe a familiar face on it. I have saved more money buying someones used stuff then paying full price for new. Usually at these swap meets they have training sessions, updates, and hands on learning. I just think this model could be very useful in FIRST for training, social interaction, and some good ole horse trading that has been lost in today's internet generation.

[Samwaldo]

Last year at at the Boston Regional (Back when Boston held regionals, and not NE Championships) A mentor from a team was literally walking around with a tote in hand, in case anyone needed anything. That tote had the most random things but I know numerous teams were helped by him and his tote of parts. We wouldn't of been able to drive without his help in fixing and replacing parts of our gearboxes.

In the case of a swap meet, you never know what you need until you need it. You can only prepare, but for some reason, you never have what you need, you only have what you don't need.

[hrench]

We're a mostly self-funded team, nine-kids and from a small town--tight as budgets get. But we have a program called 'no robot left behind' (NLRB)where we intentionally bring bins and bins of COTs stuff and happily give it away.

Since my robot never broke during champs, I spent most of my time with rookie teams devising crazy schemes to make them more competitive--then giving them the parts or listening to the pageing system and trying to beat the other chairmans competitors to the call.

And I'll willingly admit that it's probably because we're trying to win chairman's awards. Even though those teams that you give things to aren't chairman's judges, what everyone thinks of you has a big effect on chairmans.

Also, because we have a huge stock of parts from an 11 year history, many of the parts aren't a problem. Sometimes we need the parts back (Festo, Talon) but most of the time, no problem We have crates of unused motors. Cylinders too. If we help you build a new 'system' we'd rather you keep it so you'll be competive in off-season. Yes, rookie teams, we DO like to compete again...

Don't worry about buying parts. Find the teams trying for chairman's--they'll probably give them to you. We have eight RCAs.