Is business too overlooked by FIRST?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

Maybe an association of non-engineering mentors to help organize this aspect of the teams. They could call it NEMO or something like that.

Speaking of NEMO it does exist. http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Speaking of NEMO it does exist. http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

I believe FrankJ made what is colloquially referred to as a 'joke'

[ehfeinberg]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Speaking of NEMO it does exist. http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

I think that was sarcasm...

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by dcarr

I believe FrankJ made what is colloquially referred to as a 'joke'

Originally Posted by ehfeinberg

I think that was sarcasm...

Sorry it was hard to tell if he was serious or not.

[Mr V]

I fully agree that FIRST headquarters needs to put more emphasis on the other aspects of FRC. The fact is that the constant hype about making the students into engineers and students working with professional engineers make recruiting team members interested in other aspects of the program and mentors who aren't engineers into the program.

A couple of years ago we were at an event and the father of one of the students was next to me down in spirit alley cheering for the team. He commented that this was so great and quite the mind blowing experience. He then said he wished he could be involved but sadly he was not an engineer he was the manager of a bank branch. I said great that is what we need I've got more engineers than I can shake a stick at and no one to help the team write a business plan.

Sure the country needs more engineers but we need competent people to fill many other jobs in society. Fact is if the world was full of engineers we would have never accomplished anything. You need at least one person with a gun to shoot the engineer so we can get on with the process of building something. It also helps to have people who handle finances, marketing and operations, all things that FRC can allow students to experience if they and potential mentors know of the opportunities.

[waialua359]

I am still confused as to why FIRST doesnt emphasize the Entreprenuership Award as being one of the top awards??

In my 15 years of FIRST, the biggest hurdle or complaints I hear is COST.
There is a reason why many teams no longer do FIRST, especially newer teams once they run out of the initial startup funding support.

I would think that this is FIRST's biggest issue in their quest to get more and more teams participating and that they would put a lot more emphasis on the "business" part.

[guniv]

I definitely think the business aspect is overlooked. The past years our team has neglected the business aspect and this year we really buckled down on it. I'd say now that it's the strongest part of our program. It greatly benefits the team and keeps everyone occupied. Keeping the team visible in the community ends up benefiting all local teams in the end.

Also, shameless plug: if you're in the area, we're hosting a business summit in east Tennessee because we've been aware of this being overlooked for some time. Check out our thread.

[cptopher]

YES. As an engineering mentor and drive coach, I too often think that business is ignored. For my team, I relate FIRST teams to NASCAR teams. Everyone sees the car, the driver, the pit crew and crew chief. But behind every great race team is a substantial business operation. Not just in dollars, but these businesses excel at investment, sponsorship, long term planning and logistics.

I also tell my business students that FIRST and its focus on STEM gives them an advantage in business careers. I feel that a business career in an engineering company can be more fruitful than other business careers. And that being able to talk to engineers about STEM topics would make them better business professionals. I understand that FIRST was created to promote STEM at a time when it wasn't emphasized. But now there are additional opportunities to wrap the enterprise around STEM.

Forget awards. Business is ignored in the fact that there are few scholarship opportunities for the business students. FIRST should actively look for scholarship sponsors for business students that can help tie in their STEM exposure. This would help us recruit business students. I respectfully submit STEM+B.

Chris
Mentor and Drive Coach for Team 3534

[dcarr]

Just to continue the thought process a bit...

I think FIRST provides an excellent opportunity to demonstrate to students how engineers and business people can work together and play off one another's strengths.

Too often in my university setting as a CS major I see developers who look down on business people, who in their minds, lack any real skill. And vice versa - business majors with a "hot startup" who just need a "code monkey" to "make it show up on the iPhone."

I think educating students before they get to college can improve the climate in general and improve the likelihood of balanced partnerships that foster innovation.

[pandamonium]

As a former team captain I was verry excited to go into engineering after all I was a robot nerd. I did a business internship and fell in love. I have felt that business is not adequately represented even with the award. No other high school program is as involved as FIRST. Do I have a degree in engineering No but I do have a solid career I am verry happy with.

[DevBal5012]

My team is always stressing the business aspect of the team, after all without a proper administrative side of a team, the engineering side wouldn't be able to do what they do and the team would never progress. I believe FIRST should emphasize marketing and business as a whole and stress this aspect of teams more in the future.

[elschumacher]

So, I've been the Business Head Captain for our team for the past 2 years, and what I've found is that FIRST thinks it does a better job about business kids than it does. Here's an example. Not for the first time, I was asked by judges what I wanted to do in college - IR and Business. It was extremely disheartening to me to see their polite nods and glazing expressions as they turned their attention entirely back to my co-presenter, a future engineer. I wasted a solid twenty seconds in a Chairman's presentation this year justifying my choice of major, and while it helped the presentation in the long run, I don't think I should have felt the need to justify my own future. Another example is the common question of "how many of your alums go into STEM fields?" Since I'm not a STEM-kid, I'm hurting the numbers - thus, because numbers matter, I'm damaging the awards pitch. It may not matter for much, but it's the attitude towards it mattering at all that bothers me.

Of course, I love FIRST, and being in the program has opened my eyes to how cool STEM is. I don't want to do engineering, but I'm in awe of everyone who has the aptitude and drive to do it all. My point is that it's a little frustrating when the program that means so much to me treats me as though I am less important than my build colleagues. FIRST is always going to be first-of-all about engineering, and I wouldn't want it any other way, but I would like to feel as though I'm not incorrect if I choose to pursue my non-STEM interests.

And to back up the student-run thing, our team is almost entirely student-run, mentor-advised. Our mentors are always there to help if we need it, but it's our responsibility to make most decisions regarding the team's well-being and future sustainability.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by elschumacher

So, I've been the Business Head Captain for our team for the past 2 years, and what I've found is that FIRST thinks it does a better job about business kids than it does. Here's an example. Not for the first time, I was asked by judges what I wanted to do in college - IR and Business. It was extremely disheartening to me to see their polite nods and glazing expressions as they turned their attention entirely back to my co-presenter, a future engineer. I wasted a solid twenty seconds in a Chairman's presentation this year justifying my choice of major, and while it helped the presentation in the long run, I don't think I should have felt the need to justify my own future. Another example is the common question of "how many of your alums go into STEM fields?" Since I'm not a STEM-kid, I'm hurting the numbers - thus, because numbers matter, I'm damaging the awards pitch. It may not matter for much, but it's the attitude towards it mattering at all that bothers me.

If FIRST is failing to acknowledge that business is a STEM field, then they are missing the boat. As an economist (and business/scouting team mentor) I can tell you that I use LOTS of math (and science & technology) in my everyday work. I know that business people use complex mathematics as well. Wall Street financial analysts use valuation and risk models that many engineers cannot comprehend. Perhaps FIRST if too focused on the "E" and not enough on the "ST...M".

[BigJ]

As an opposite anecdote, a judge at one of our regionals this year told our students that we produce "too many" STEM majors and not enough business people and that we should try to "be more balanced" (as if we assign what our students become interested in ).

My students were more than a little confused.

[Jessica Boucher]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

If FIRST is failing to acknowledge that business is a STEM field, then they are missing the boat.

Aaaand here's where I disagree. It CAN be a STEM field, but it is not always. Know why Babson sticks out in this list of salaries full of ivies and tech schools? Because they're all going into finance/accounting. And I can tell you all of my friends who were super-finance-focused didn't give a care about my robot business.

FIRST has a lot of competition for non-profit dollars. Not just with the usual suspects (Vex, BBIQ, etc), but with other NPOs. I've written about this before, but there's more "seemingly needier" organizations out there. FIRST falls within the education/job growth category of NPO, and usually "job growth" is not as pressing as the "feeding and housing and eradicating disease" orgs. As FIRST grows to non-tech companies to Make it Loud, this will become more and more prevalent.

They need to be laser-focused when going for grants and large donations, or else they won't get them. This is why I'm very happy for the quiet revolution: scholarships are available, the Entrepreneurship Award, etc. I also believe in the butterfly effect: their experience may inspire a new engineer who didn't think they could go into a STEM career. That also makes my day.