Proof that districts work: PNW

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Jscout11

Sorry, this is what I meant. My point was that the level of competition was generally lower than at Champs and MSC.

That strategy was a smart way to deal with the limitations of a lot of robots, but the lack of intake especially gave these robots little strategic depth beyond that, unlike the alliances at champs that used this strategy.

I could tell from watching that the standard at any of the District Championship events was significantly higher that either of the regionals I attended. I think There might even be some Michiganders with pretty graphs and data to back that assertion up.

[Mr V]

To me the proof that the district system works has nothing to do with more teams from a district making it to finals and more of those teams advancing farther in those finals, that is just a nice side benefit.

The real proof lies in the students of the teams that didn't make it to CMP or even DCMP.

As the FIRST Senior Mentor for Washington state and a RI or LRI at 5 district events and the DCMP I spent a lot of time talking to team members, both students and coaches about the District system. Every single student I talked to and the vast majority of Coaches and Mentors were very happy about the change.

Students who had been on teams who have traditionally only attended a single Regional and have never had the chance to make it to CMP were particularly happy about going to the District system. They were now able to have what I call the full engineering experience. In the past they got one chance to test their solution to the problem at hand. With two events they were able to take the lessons learned at the event and then iterate and improve their designs.

Students loved the fact that a higher percentage of teams at an event were able to make it to finals and win awards.

Students loved the increased number of matches.

Some students and mentors shared how they were initially concerned that not playing in a big stadium would some how cheapen the experience but instead found the high school gyms more intimate and just as good of an experience and the viewing of the matches generally better.

The majority of the Coaches and Mentors also shared the feelings of the students and many said they saw even greater growth in their students than they had in the past. They also preferred the 6hrs of unbag time at their shop as they found it much more productive than time at a venue. They were able to gather all the parts and tools needed and lay them all out so they were ready to go when the bag was opened. Some teams even set up stations for the different things they planned and moved the bot to the next station for the next modification or repair. Others used some of that time to practice driving and test their changes.

Teams that did make it to DCMP expressed satisfaction and found the greater level of competition inspiring.

Yes teams that did make it to DCMP and CMP did improve their robot, strategy and driving thanks to having 3 or more chances to make changes and many more matches than they had in the past. But again I consider this a nice side benefit and one that will go away as more Districts come on line.

In conclusion if you in one of the areas where the critical mass is high enough to go to districts now or in the near future I suggest you share with your RD and other leaders in your area that you are ready to make the switch. That means that you also need to step up to the task and encourage others to do the same. Shadow volunteers next season, if you don't go to the districts, so you are prepared to take on those roles when you do go to the District system. If you do go next season step up and volunteer. It is a lot of work moving to the district system, particularly in the first season, but the benefits far outweigh the increased work. If more people step up to the task there really won't be an increased work load for the majority of those involved.

[tsaksa]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I don't think any of the arguments against districts stated that districts would make teams in that area less competitive.

Very true. I think the long term effect on teams will be important to watch. Districts are much more expensive for many teams than the regional model, and I see several teams coming out of this season completely broke. It was a good year competitively, but it is too soon to say if that will be a good thing for the PNW in the long run.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by tsaksa

Very true. I think the long term effect on teams will be important to watch. Districts are much more expensive for many teams than the regional model, and I see several teams coming out of this season completely broke. It was a good year competitively, but it is too soon to say if that will be a good thing for the PNW in the long run.

I would not say that Districts are much more expensive for many teams. It certainly was more expensive for a number of teams particularly those from rural areas where there was not a District event near them and even more so for those teams that had traditionally only attended a single a Regional and then made it so DCMP. However in the long term there are plans to mitigate those effects.

In WA for those teams at a public school who took the time to apply for the OSPI grant that would have to travel to one or both of their district events they were given an additional travel stipend that was based on whether they were going to have to travel to one or two district events. I know that did not help teams based in OR.

One of the things that was discussed but was not implemented due to the fact that so much was going on was to encourage teams that lived near a District event to host teams that were traveling to the event. In fact I had one of the rookie teams that was attending an event at the next closest school contact me to put him in contact with another rookie team that was going to be traveling to that event to ask if they wanted to stay with their team members. I have not asked how that turned out but it is certainly something that I will follow up on. I plan on encouraging teams local to an event to reach out to those traveling to that event to make similar offers next season.

In the past in the PNW ~35% of the teams attended two Regionals. However the teams that attended DCMP included many teams who have never attended two Regionals. There were significant capital investments made to start up the district model that will not be needed in future seasons. So if we are able to continue to raise funds at past levels there should be some money to help those teams in need that make it to DCMP and possibly CMP too. However there was not a single team that earned an invite to DCMP that turned it down and only one team that earned an invite to CMP that turned it down and yes funding was a part of the problem of why they couldn't attend.

However as I said previously the real success stories are not the ~15% of teams that made it to CMP or the ~40% that made it to DCMP, it was the ~65% of teams that have never been able to attend more than one event that now were able to get the full engineering experience.

[Citrus Dad]

The entire West Coast lifted its game this year. This may reflect how FIRST has more room to grow here. California had 3 top division qualifiers (1678, 254, 399), two division alliance captain winners (1678, 254), four teams on Einstein (with 973 and 5136) and the finalist alliance captains. 2485 also was the key midfielder for the highest scoring match.

I haven't tallied the other divisions, but in Newton the other division finalist also was captained by 971 coming from the #6 seed. 846 was on a semifinalist.

[artK]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

I haven't tallied the other divisions, but in Newton the other division finalist also was captained by 971 coming from the #6 seed. 846 was on a semifinalist.

On Curie, four California teams played in elims: 254 (winners), 3476, 294, and 1323 (quarterfinalists on the 8th, 7th, and 4th alliances)

Originally Posted by Link07

I'll put up some MAR stats while we're talking about districts

There was a MAR team on the finals of each division this year (including Einstein)

Since 2012 and the foundation of MAR, we've had 4 unique teams on Einstein (25, 303, 1640 x 2, 2590).

25 won Einstein in 2012.

2014 Champs:

MAR represented 5.75% of all teams at Champs, at 23 teams.

MAR made up 7.03% of elimination teams, at 9 teams selected to play on an elims alliance (11, 25, 193, 225, 341, 1218, 1640, 2590)

2590 was the only alliance captain.
341 was taken in the first round
11, 25, 225, 1640 were taken in the second round
193, 1218, 2016 were taken in the third round. 193 and 2016 did not play any elims matches.

Awards:

Archimedes Winner - 2590
Newton Winner - 1640
Newton Finalist - 341
Galileo Finalist - 1218
Curie Finalist - 2016
Einstein Finalist - 1640
Archimedes Entrepreneurship - 2590
Newton Creativity - 25

Total - 8

Anyone know this information for New England?

[gafftron]

Here's the compiled information for New England:

2014 Champs:

NE represented 7.25% of all teams at Champs, at 29 teams.

NE made up 7.03% of elimination teams, at 9 teams selected to play.

1153 was the only alliance captain
125, 177, 195, 2067 were taken in the first round
558 was taken in the second round
175, 230, 3467 were taken in the third round. 3467 did not play any elims matches.

Awards:

Galileo Finalist - 1153
Archimedes Finalist - 175
Archimedes Winner - 3467

Archimedes Team Spirit - 1519

Total - 4

Hopefully I didn't miss anything

[cjl2625]

2067 was also taken in the first round

[wet_colored_arc]

I think Districts would help our students regardless of what happens on Einstein.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by wet_colored_arc

I think Districts would help our students regardless of what happens on Einstein.

As I've said a couple of times based on talking to students, coaches and mentors that is highly likely and is the best reason to go to the district system.

[PingPongPerson]

Personally, I liked the districts because the increased number of matches really tested your team's design. A chassis or end effector that may have withstood 10 matches may not be able to stay together after 50 matches, and it really challenges the students to build more robust robots or at the very least make spares of everything.

I also have to say that I was really impressed with the quality of the coverage provided in the PNW districts. Some matches were uploaded to Youtube within hours of being played, which was really great for analyzing our strategies before eliminations.

[tickspe15]

As a student, I love the district system. We had the opportunity to tune the little things that usually only get caught in the off season. With 86 matches and well over 100 when you include practice matches we had time to really get to know our machine.

I also have loved the increased opportunities for connections between teams due to the increase in events and the more intimate settings. This season I have gone from being friends with teams that we see a few times every year; to truly knowing people from these other teams. Thru volunteering and just hanging out the PNW has become a much more tight knit community this season.

Lastly the increase in awards is very inspirational. Teams that have never won awards before are now winning awards and gaining fulfillment from all their hard work thus being inspired to improve.

[Samwaldo]

As a student in the NE District, it is obvious that in only 1 year the robots and play are better than last year. With every single team playing 2+ events. Many playing 3 and 4! (And 125 playing 5 official events). Teams have been constantly improving stradegy, driving, robots, etc.

My team has never focused on improving our robot between events. This year we did in between every event. Districts are alot more competitive since you play the same people and they learn your weaknesses.

I LOVED districts and wished I could see one more year (senior). As a driver, at the end of the day, i felt we had too many matches, which was a great feeling. In addition wth only 40 teams max, your chance of eliminations is increased. Another benefit I didnt expect was that due to smaller events and seeing the same teams over and over, I met many new people.

New England I KNOW has been only strengthened because of the district model. Michigan, you better watch out.

[Dunngeon]

Originally Posted by Mr V

To be fair you only missed one more day of school vs attending a single regional and winning your way to CMP at that event. Note when selecting the schedule for the PNW district events we specifically offered to have Sat-Sun events and none of the venues wanted that schedule, they all wanted to do Fri-Sat events.

While this is true, the distribution of the day's was much more destructive to our school's class schedule then it had been in years past. The compressed nature was what got to many members of our team, with a few choosing not to attend DCMP or CMP because of how much school they would be missing in such a short time period. (ie. last year, Qualified for CMP wk 2, attended CMP wk 9) to this year ( OSU wk 6, DCMP wk 7, CMP wk 9)

The time crunch isn't ideal, but again, I really enjoyed the district model

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Dunngeon

While this is true, the distribution of the day's was much more destructive to our school's class schedule then it had been in years past. The compressed nature was what got to many members of our team, with a few choosing not to attend DCMP or CMP because of how much school they would be missing in such a short time period. (ie. last year, Qualified for CMP wk 2, attended CMP wk 9) to this year ( OSU wk 6, DCMP wk 7, CMP wk 9)

The time crunch isn't ideal, but again, I really enjoyed the district model

Thanks for the feedback.

Unfortunately there is not a lot that can be done about the time schedule. However we at Washington FIRST Robotics do understand that there are issues and do have a plan to help things as much as possible while working in the confines of the competition season.

For next season the current plan is to have District events weeks 1-5 and DCMP week 6 with the CMP being week 9. This of course means that some teams will still need to do back to back events if a week 5 event is closest or works best for them. However it does increase the time for planning to attend CMP which is often more problematic due to the need to fly.

Long term we would like to purchase an additional field and all the additional equipment that would allow all the district events to take place weeks 1-4 with DCMP staying week 6. Of course some of that depends on the weeks that venues are available.

Unfortunately teams may still need or want to attend their 2 district events in back to back weeks due to the timing of the different venues and which events fill up first. We have not ruled out Sat-Sun events though all of the venues this season wanted to do Fri-Sat events.

Rest assured that we do wish to minimize the impacts on students and mentors while still allowing teams to take advantage of the benefits that the District system provides.