Custom Gearboxes

[YCJeon772]

So our team has been thinking about designing custom gearboxes to achieve a fast high gear and strong low gear. How do teams create such fast/strong gearboxes? I tried playing around with the JVN calculator to see what I could get but couldn't get what we wanted.

[cadandcookies]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "we couldn't get what we wanted" out of the JVN calculator. Were you using the single speed or two speed tabs? Were you using all the tooth counts of gears that are available from FIRST vendors?

My typical process for drive train gearboxes is to determine what my design parameters are for the gearbox (shifting or no? max speed/min speed? certain time to distance requirements?), then playing around with JVN until I get a set of gear ratios that work.

I guess the main thing about the JVN calulator is that, like all calculators, it's only as good as what you put into it. It's not magic-- one of the often ignored parts of design is determining what exactly you want out of what you're designing. In my experience there hasn't been a single gearbox I've designed that the design wasn't at least in part simplified by the JVN calculator.

[YCJeon772]

When I said "we couldn't get what we wanted", I meant that we couldn't get a fast speed for high gear and a strong low gear. I was using the two speed tab, and yes, I was using the gears that Vex offered. We were hoping to get at least 13f/s for high gear, and a reduction of at least 10:1 gear ratio.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by YCJeon772

When I said "we couldn't get what we wanted", I meant that we couldn't get a fast speed for high gear and a strong low gear. I was using the two speed tab, and yes, I was using the gears that Vex offered. We were hoping to get at least 13f/s for high gear, and a reduction of at least 10:1 gear ratio.

What's driving these numbers? How do you know you want a 10:1 gear ratio? Wouldn't that depend on the wheel size a little bit? And what you're doing?

[YCJeon772]

Well we just want a general gearbox that would have a fast high gear and a strong low gear, and we use 4 inch wheels.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

I'm not really sure what you mean by "we couldn't get what we wanted" out of the JVN calculator. Were you using the single speed or two speed tabs? Were you using all the tooth counts of gears that are available from FIRST vendors?

My typical process for drive train gearboxes is to determine what my design parameters are for the gearbox (shifting or no? max speed/min speed? certain time to distance requirements?), then playing around with JVN until I get a set of gear ratios that work.

I guess the main thing about the JVN calulator is that, like all calculators, it's only as good as what you put into it. It's not magic-- one of the often ignored parts of design is determining what exactly you want out of what you're designing. In my experience there hasn't been a single gearbox I've designed that the design wasn't at least in part simplified by the JVN calculator.

Actually, I've alwasy been confused about something in the JVN calc: it lists the draw at maximum output load, but is that the normal drive load or pushing match load?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by YCJeon772

Well we just want a general gearbox that would have a fast high gear and a strong low gear, and we use 4 inch wheels.

So, why build your own? That sounds like a pretty cut and dry use of COTS components? For example http://www.wcproducts.net/wcp-shifter-3cim/ (scroll down to the charts for the speeds) has several options that meet your needs.

I'm not saying don't go custom, just saying that you might want to look at options and see what concepts you can steal.

[mman1506]

WCP's drivetrain calculator gives a more in depth analysis than the JVN calculator. http://www.wcproducts.net/how-to-drivetrain/

[YCJeon772]

I think it would be nice to learn making custom gearboxes. If it doesn't work, we could always buy them. And I never knew that site that you gave me existed, so I didn't know if there was something like that.

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by mman1506

WCP's drivetrain calculator gives a more in depth analysis than the JVN calculator. http://www.wcproducts.net/how-to-drivetrain/

This calculator only works with Vexpro and WCP gearboxes, unless you want to use the same gears and ratios for a custom box.

[RoboChair]

With 4 inch traction wheels 1678 Citrus Circuits ran a high gear of 22 fps(theoretical free speed) and a low gear of 8 fps on our 6 CIM drivetrain using VEXPRO ball shifters.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

So, why build your own? That sounds like a pretty cut and dry use of COTS components? For example http://www.wcproducts.net/wcp-shifter-3cim/ (scroll down to the charts for the speeds) has several options that meet your needs.

I'm not saying don't go custom, just saying that you might want to look at options and see what concepts you can steal.

As they say, steal from the best, invent the rest. I'd agree that looking at COTS options and borrowing their ratios is probably the best option for you. You might also want to be a bit more flexible with your design-- if you're designing for a certain speed and ratio, you might need to be flexible with your wheel size, for example.

[Mike Marandola]

Originally Posted by RoboChair

With 4 inch traction wheels 1678 Citrus Circuits ran a high gear of 22 fps(theoretical free speed) and a low gear of 8 fps on our 6 CIM drivetrain using VEXPRO ball shifters.

Did you guys have any breaker issues?

[asid61]

Custom gearboxes are nice, but WCP 3-cim gearboxes are hard to beat.
I would go custom only if I am confident that I can get an appreciable reduction in weight (at most a 2.25lb gearbox) or size (because WCP gearboxes are pretty large). Or if you have a gearbox design you want to try in the offseason, such as a bevel box or something similar then it would be good to try custom.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by asid61

Actually, I've alwasy been confused about something in the JVN calc: it lists the draw at maximum output load, but is that the normal drive load or pushing match load?

Neither, it's an overly simplified model of total current draw. It doesn't take into account stuff like battery voltage drop.

JVN's spreadsheet is a very good first pass, but you really should look into it deeper. Check out Ether's drivetrain simulation program that takes that stuff into account.