FRC Blog - 2014 Championship Pros & Cons

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Cory

Team 254 intends to suggest that all HOF teams receive double wide (20'x10') pits to both house the robot and any display of the team's choice. We think this would allow teams to much more effectively showcase their accomplishments.

I'm not sure going around through all of the divisions hunting for all the Hall of Fame teams is something the average Championship attendee is going to do.

This seemed to be well received amongst other HOF teams, but who knows if it is logistically possible.

Pit space is doubling next year. There will be more teams, but there should be room to give HOF teams bigger pits if that's what FIRST wants.

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

I'm not sure going around through all of the divisions hunting for all the Hall of Fame teams is something the average Championship attendee is going to do?..

Not sure who noticed but the Hall of Fame teams had gold stars floating above their pits this year. Makes it real easy to find them, and looked kind of cool.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm pretty sure I remember paper airplanes in the Atlanta days, as well. Arena security was more aggressive about stopping people from throwing them, though.

[Red2486]

The Hall of Fame booths certainly have come far since Champs has been in St. Louis. I remember in 2011 when they were almost hidden away in the area with the FLL pits. There is definitely still room for improvement, but FIRST did a really good job making sure that the Hall of Fame teams get the recognition they deserve this year.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Red2486

The Hall of Fame booths certainly have come far since Champs has been in St. Louis. I remember in 2011 when they were almost hidden away in the area with the FLL pits. There is definitely still room for improvement, but FIRST did a really good job making sure that the Hall of Fame teams get the recognition they deserve this year.

I'd say FIRST is doing a much better job, but it could be better still.

I really like Cory's suggestion of giving HoF teams some extra space right next to their normal 10x10 pit. HoF teams are not exhibitors or vendors, they are competitors. No need to divide their resources among multiple locations, when the folks who would be recognized and inspiring people at a HoF display are the very same ones who are doing that anyway, in the pits.

[Hallry]

Cons

• Einstein feed on NASA TV cut out before the last match – NASA TV broadcasts are automated, and there was no practical way for us to ask for a few more minutes because we were running late, but we’ll see what we can do next year

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein. However, all of the divisions need improvement for their respective streams.

For comparison, here is a PNW match, and here is an Einstein match.

It also seems like PNW was able to cut up the match footage into the individual matches and upload them quite quickly, while last year, FIRST simply uploaded blocks of footage from WCMP, a few weeks after the event.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein.

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

As for the actual quality of the streams, (not the footage being shown on them), FIRST needs to look at what PNW did, as well as some of the other events that had spectacular streams. Since A/V is already producing the content, I see no reason why FIRST can't come up with an easy, quality, standard way of getting that content on to a quality live stream. As for WCMP, NASA should have a much better way of doing this already, it's embarrassing that it can't be figured out.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by dag0620

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

As for the actual quality of the streams, (not the footage being shown on them), FIRST needs to look at what PNW did, as well as some of the other events that had spectacular streams. Since A/V is already producing the content, I see no reason why FIRST can't come up with an easy, quality, standard way of getting that content on to a quality live stream. As for WCMP, NASA should have a much better way of doing this already, it's embarrassing that it can't be figured out.

I don't know the exact cost of the AV equipment here in the PNW, but it has to cost less then contracting out.

We have 2 fields here, and each field has it's own AV setup. I helped setup the camera's at one event. There were 3 cameras that were wired into the AV desk, and then 1 wireless camera that could be carried around the field to give closer looks. Then there was all the equipment to hook this up to a computer and then to the internet. I'm sure that FIRST providing each field with good AV equipment would be much cheaper then contracting out the AV, and would look much better at the same time.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Thad House

I don't know the exact cost of the AV equipment here in the PNW, but it has to cost less then contracting out.

We have 2 fields here, and each field has it's own AV setup. I helped setup the camera's at one event. There were 3 cameras that were wired into the AV desk, and then 1 wireless camera that could be carried around the field to give closer looks. Then there was all the equipment to hook this up to a computer and then to the internet. I'm sure that FIRST providing each field with good AV equipment would be much cheaper then contracting out the AV, and would look much better at the same time.

My concern isn't the cost. I know purchasing it is the better alternative. My worry is finding the volunteers to both handle all of that staffing, as well as volunteers with the expertise to make it happen. You also have to remember, while it's doable at a district event, on a regional level, you also throw lighting and rigging into the system. Should we really expect FIRST and volunteers to do that stuff in house?

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by dag0620

My concern isn't the cost. I know purchasing it is the better alternative. My worry is finding the volunteers to both handle all of that staffing, as well as volunteers with the expertise to make it happen. You also have to remember, while it's doable at a district event, on a regional level, you also throw lighting and rigging into the system. Should we really expect FIRST and volunteers to do that stuff in house?

Ryan is specifically complaining about Einstein. Yes, getting every event an HD webcast with cameramen who know where to point is a big task, but Einstein at the very least should have this, if not all the divisions...

Watching from home in 2012 and 2013 was pathetic, to be quite honest. I remember watching one qualification match in 2012 that 67 was in, but I couldn't actually tell which robot they were.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Ryan is specifically complaining about Einstein. Yes, getting every event an HD webcast with cameramen who know where to point is a big task, but Einstein at the very least should have this, if not all the divisions...

Whoops, I mentioned Einstein, but I was trying to discuss the streams for all of the divisions. I'll edit that post to make that more evident.

[M. Lillis]

Can we talk about field location? (This may also help out HOF teams)

I haven't seen it posted here yet, and it seems to be one of the bigger problems with housing an event like FIRST in a football stadium.

To get to the Curie field you had to walk all the way around the stadium, and it just feels unnecessary. Why not put Einstein where Curie is currently and move the 4 main fields closer to the pits. I mocked up this proposal. The four small blue boxes are the division fields, Einstein is given half of the stadium for floor space and seating.

This was not initially part of my idea, but it could work: put the HOF team's pits in the red box area of my map. This would give those teams "priority" for getting to matches and they could have bigger pits to accomodate their larger displays. It would be made accessible to the public from the stands and with the proper signage in the concourse, any spectator could walk down and visit the HOF teams.

I think that it will help ease flow of traffic to Einstein during elims, and it will make "getting good seats" less of a priority, because there are more sections opened for Einstein. Finding HOF teams in the pits is difficult if you are new to CMP, so putting them out in the open will help draw attention to their pit displays and their team in general, as they did win the most prestigious award in FIRST.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by M. Lillis

Can we talk about field location? (This may also help out HOF teams)

I haven't seen it posted here yet, and it seems to be one of the bigger problems with housing an event like FIRST in a football stadium.

To get to the Curie field you had to walk all the way around the stadium, and it just feels unnecessary. Why not put Einstein where Curie is currently and move the 4 main fields closer to the pits. I mocked up this proposal. The four small blue boxes are the division fields, Einstein is given half of the stadium for floor space and seating.

This is very close to the set-up in Atlanta, which people forever have been wanting back. The problem is that the VIP lounge looks over Einstein in the current set up, and it's been a pretty much decided factor that due to that they won't move Einstein. While it's not the must effective layout overall, it's crucial to have the VIP lounge over look Einstein. Without the VIP's and Sponsors, we wouldn't be able to rent a giant Dome, so we do have to take care of them.

[PayneTrain]

I like to imagine that FIRST will be taking the opportunity next year to improve the way the Hall of Fame works and maybe to a lesser extent, those vying for the CCA that year. After you pass through the safety glass check at the designated FRC doors in the pit and move into Hall 4, you see the Hall of Fame. It is a line of spaces (I like the idea of double pit sizes) that spits Hall 4 diagonally. The pits for the first 2 or three divisions sit in Hall 3 and the remainder of Hall 4, and the other 2 or 3 divisions rest in Hall 5 and the remainder of Hall 4. You walk down the line that starts with the 1992 winner and go down the aisle until you get to the most recent winner, then maybe cap of the Hall of Fame's Walk of Fame with a stage and lounge where the teams can present themselves to others. The Hall of Fame teams, after years of under-appreciation and 2011 levels of neglect are the centerpiece fo the FRC pits, as they should be. The human pathways ride along the walls of the exhibit halls closest to the common areas of the convention center, with the pits of RCA winning teams all right off the pathway. Hall of Fame teams would not be in their divisions anymore, but the RCA teams would serve to be the anchors of their divisions, wit hthe yongest teams simply running (I mean WALKING! WALK IN THE PITS) down the line until they get to the RCA teams anchoring the division.

There are a lot of nice things that FIRST cna do when FRC has the dome and center to itself, and I hope this is one of them

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by dag0620

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

For other "minor" sports its quite common to bring in sport experts (I know the Olympics track & field spotter, and I've worked on other track & field broadcasts) to assist in running the telecast alongside the professional crew. FIRST just needs to anticipate that situation and assign the right personnel. The webcast quality will increase immensely almost instantaneously.