FRC Blog - 2014 Championship Pros & Cons

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein.

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

As for the actual quality of the streams, (not the footage being shown on them), FIRST needs to look at what PNW did, as well as some of the other events that had spectacular streams. Since A/V is already producing the content, I see no reason why FIRST can't come up with an easy, quality, standard way of getting that content on to a quality live stream. As for WCMP, NASA should have a much better way of doing this already, it's embarrassing that it can't be figured out.

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by dag0620

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

As for the actual quality of the streams, (not the footage being shown on them), FIRST needs to look at what PNW did, as well as some of the other events that had spectacular streams. Since A/V is already producing the content, I see no reason why FIRST can't come up with an easy, quality, standard way of getting that content on to a quality live stream. As for WCMP, NASA should have a much better way of doing this already, it's embarrassing that it can't be figured out.

I don't know the exact cost of the AV equipment here in the PNW, but it has to cost less then contracting out.

We have 2 fields here, and each field has it's own AV setup. I helped setup the camera's at one event. There were 3 cameras that were wired into the AV desk, and then 1 wireless camera that could be carried around the field to give closer looks. Then there was all the equipment to hook this up to a computer and then to the internet. I'm sure that FIRST providing each field with good AV equipment would be much cheaper then contracting out the AV, and would look much better at the same time.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by Thad House

I don't know the exact cost of the AV equipment here in the PNW, but it has to cost less then contracting out.

We have 2 fields here, and each field has it's own AV setup. I helped setup the camera's at one event. There were 3 cameras that were wired into the AV desk, and then 1 wireless camera that could be carried around the field to give closer looks. Then there was all the equipment to hook this up to a computer and then to the internet. I'm sure that FIRST providing each field with good AV equipment would be much cheaper then contracting out the AV, and would look much better at the same time.

My concern isn't the cost. I know purchasing it is the better alternative. My worry is finding the volunteers to both handle all of that staffing, as well as volunteers with the expertise to make it happen. You also have to remember, while it's doable at a district event, on a regional level, you also throw lighting and rigging into the system. Should we really expect FIRST and volunteers to do that stuff in house?

[Drivencrazy]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Not only this, but also webcast quality. All of the webcasts for the PNW events this year were extraordinarily better than the NASA streams at WCMP, and from what I heard, the PNW webcasts were all student-ran. FIRST should take a look at what PNW is doing and make that the standard for their streams, especially those at the prestigious World Championship. PNW camera operators also were familiar with the game and were able to focus in on the actual action, rather than simply zooming in to the part of the field where the most robots were, which is what FIRST told the WCMP operators to do. The WCMP also had a lot of weird camera angles, especially on Einstein.

For comparison, here is a PNW match, and here is an Einstein match.

I heard several complaints about the quality of the stream from people that weren't at champs. This seems to be working against FIRST's goal of "making it loud." If they are going to direct people who can't attend the event to the webcast, you would hope they would make every effort to have a quality stream. Maybe I have too high of expectations but I would think having 4 fields streamed at a decent (maybe not HD) quality without looping or skipping isn't too much to ask. Hope it's fixed for next year.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Patrick Flynn

Okay your right. I should refine my post. You will be kicked out of any professional event for throwing anything on the ice or field that is not, an official sponsored event. A teddy bear toss, or puck toss really? There's no connection between these and our paper airplanes, those are official team events they clear the ice and say go and everyone throws.

The rat toss or octopi? Those are actually traditions that have been around for longer than FIRST and the venue has official staff to clean up after them and they happen during a set time not disrespectfully during the nation anthem, or Deans speech.

Throwing foul balls and homeruns back onto the field aren't "official sponsored events," yet they happen. Heck, they can make you internet famous or appear on SportsCenter. Additionally, the "rat toss" is not exactly a time honored tradition, and is certainly not older than FIRST. It happened first during the 1996 play-offs, and then once again in 2012. Nor does either the rat toss or octopi happen at a set time. As for the national athem...

The point here isn't really the finer details of throwing stuff at sports game (other than it apparently isn't consoned aside of these many scenarios ). It's that your post was absurd fearmongering, and you know it. It's one thing to be opposed to throwing paper airplanes. It's another to invent some minutely possible doomsday scenario to justify that belief, and then substantiate it with half truths.

[cadandcookies]

I watched the streams all weekend, and my main problem wasn't the visual quality-- I could tell what was going on on the fields pretty well most of the time. The main issue I had was that the streams repeatedly cut out and required me to reload then or the GameDay page to get them going again. Einstein was fantastic though-- almost no lag, little skipping, didn't crash once.

There are a lot of things about webcasts that can be improved, but I think hat consistency of the stream is a big one. One of my favorite ideas was getting Google onboard, and I think that ultimately, especially as we move towards Districts, it would be a good idea to move towards in-house AV/webcasting.

[AdamHeard]

What NEEDS to happen, and only FIRST can really do this, is a singular website that my grandma can use.

She goes in, types in 973. And a few things could happen.

-973 is competing at this regional in 17 days! Give us your email, twitter, number, w/e so we can send you a reminder!

-973 is competing THIS weekend at the CVR regional. They are currently 1-8 and are playing again in approximately 37 minutes! Enter your info for a reminder, same as above.

there could be links and short videos on the sides that are FIRST promos, etc... Links to match results, standings, SPONSOR ADDs.

Want to Make it Loud? Make this happen!

[PayneTrain]

I like to imagine that FIRST will be taking the opportunity next year to improve the way the Hall of Fame works and maybe to a lesser extent, those vying for the CCA that year. After you pass through the safety glass check at the designated FRC doors in the pit and move into Hall 4, you see the Hall of Fame. It is a line of spaces (I like the idea of double pit sizes) that spits Hall 4 diagonally. The pits for the first 2 or three divisions sit in Hall 3 and the remainder of Hall 4, and the other 2 or 3 divisions rest in Hall 5 and the remainder of Hall 4. You walk down the line that starts with the 1992 winner and go down the aisle until you get to the most recent winner, then maybe cap of the Hall of Fame's Walk of Fame with a stage and lounge where the teams can present themselves to others. The Hall of Fame teams, after years of under-appreciation and 2011 levels of neglect are the centerpiece fo the FRC pits, as they should be. The human pathways ride along the walls of the exhibit halls closest to the common areas of the convention center, with the pits of RCA winning teams all right off the pathway. Hall of Fame teams would not be in their divisions anymore, but the RCA teams would serve to be the anchors of their divisions, wit hthe yongest teams simply running (I mean WALKING! WALK IN THE PITS) down the line until they get to the RCA teams anchoring the division.

There are a lot of nice things that FIRST cna do when FRC has the dome and center to itself, and I hope this is one of them

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

What NEEDS to happen, and only FIRST can really do this, is a singular website that my grandma can use.

She goes in, types in 973. And a few things could happen.

-973 is competing at this regional in 17 days! Give us your email, twitter, number, w/e so we can send you a reminder!

-973 is competing THIS weekend at the CVR regional. They are currently 1-8 and are playing again in approximately 37 minutes! Enter your info for a reminder, same as above.

Want to Make it Loud? Make this happen!

http://www.atthecontrol.com/indexbackup.php

Not sure if actually signing up gets you email reminders.

(Shoutouts to 537)

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by BigJ

http://www.atthecontrol.com/indexbackup.php

Not sure if actually signing up gets you email reminders.

(Shoutouts to 537)

This is a cool start, but it needs to be flawless and cleanly integrated and working for EVERY team at EVERY event.

I can't send sponsors links to webcasts without a huge amount of explanation.

[Taylor]

While the discussion is on pits and HoF teams...
I've had several conversations with several old-timers about the pit layout, and I'm still not sure where I stand. I do know that I don't like the idea of Rookie Island - I'd much rather have a mix of team ages throughout the arena. Maybe alternate HoF and RAS teams so the newcomers can see the Pros in action and start relationships with them.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by dag0620

The problem with that is in PNW, all of the A/V is done in house, and ran by volunteers. While I applaud PNW for doing that, and their webcasts (and on site A/V from what I have been told) has been phenomenal, it's impractical for FIRST to do that on a large scale. A/V will have to continue to be contracted for a least the near future, and with that people who aren't as knowledgeable about the game will be working the cameras.

For other "minor" sports its quite common to bring in sport experts (I know the Olympics track & field spotter, and I've worked on other track & field broadcasts) to assist in running the telecast alongside the professional crew. FIRST just needs to anticipate that situation and assign the right personnel. The webcast quality will increase immensely almost instantaneously.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

What NEEDS to happen, and only FIRST can really do this, is a singular website that my grandma can use.

She goes in, types in 973. And a few things could happen.

-973 is competing at this regional in 17 days! Give us your email, twitter, number, w/e so we can send you a reminder!

-973 is competing THIS weekend at the CVR regional. They are currently 1-8 and are playing again in approximately 37 minutes! Enter your info for a reminder, same as above.

there could be links and short videos on the sides that are FIRST promos, etc... Links to match results, standings, SPONSOR ADDs.

Want to Make it Loud? Make this happen!

Here, here!!!

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Taylor

While the discussion is on pits and HoF teams...
I've had several conversations with several old-timers about the pit layout, and I'm still not sure where I stand. I do know that I don't like the idea of Rookie Island - I'd much rather have a mix of team ages throughout the arena. Maybe alternate HoF and RAS teams so the newcomers can see the Pros in action and start relationships with them.

I don't know how your pits are laid out at your regionals, but a neat thing Virginia does is have the veteran teams line up on the back wall of the aisles and the rookies at the ends. If the event had team numbered 1-60 based on oldest to newest, teams 1-10 sit on the back wall, then 11-20 are in the next row, all the way up to the front row with teams 51-60. Instead of having the walkways in the pit run parallel with this numbering, they run perpindicular. This means when you walk down an aisle of the pits you see pits from teams 4, 5, 14, 15, 24, 25, 34, 35, 44, 45, 54 and 55 all sit on the same aisle with the main thouroughfare running next to pits 51-60. When you "walk the pits" you first see the rookies and see if they are in need of any assistance. The rookies know that if they need help, they just walk towards the wall to the older teams. It's one of the few nice things about the event I wish other events would adopt. The pits are easy to navigate and can service all teams very well.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

You mean like how Red Wings fans throw octopi on the ice? Or how Cubs fans throw back home runs by the other team? Or the countless videos of little kids throwing back foul balls? Or the several junior and AHL teams that sponsor teddy bear toss events? Or the Florida Panthers' rat toss?

Your post is ridiculous fearmongering.

Tossing octopi on the ice has been banned. Those octopi are all snuck in under jackets. As a Wings fan it's part of the sport for me, but the fact is that doing so risks being ejected from the game.

The airplanes need to stop.

And as for the team that dumped paper... NO. Just no.