Jane Cosmetics at 2014 Championship

[Libby K]

Okay, I've been reading and processing, and I think it's time to jump in.

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

Katie, everything that you say here is interesting and brings up questions worth discussing. I have no doubt that the research you've read is accurate.

My main question is: Does the research point out solutions (don't use girly femininity to endorse STEM) or does it point out symptoms of a larger societal issue of women judging other women (of all ages) based on various kinds of appearances.

I think this is a huge part of why I've stayed away from this thread. Am I any less of a mentor because I like makeup and hair and high heels just as much as I like building robots with my students?

I don't buy this 'girly girls aren't inspiring' thing. I think the problem might be that some organizations might be using someone who is a girl but not necessarily a STEM enthusiast, as a STEM role model, and that's where you get into a tricky situation.

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

The solution is pretty simple, which is mostly just exposure. I have not read all the studies on the "engaging girls in stem" page, but I'm willing to bet they will conclude with "more exposure, positive reinforcement, and relatable mentors."

Katie, this made me think of something: Why can't I be relatable AND dolled up?

Where is the place in FIRST for a girl who likes 'girly' things but also likes robots? Why are we putting her down in this thread? She is no less of a FIRSTer just because she likes to dress up, and if she enjoyed the I Am Jane booth, then good for her!

I'm unfortunately reading some of the posts in this thread as 'Real FIRST girls don't -need- all that silly hair and makeup stuff,' and I'm pretty disappointed in that attitude. As Carolyn said earlier, why aren't we, the 'girly' and the 'non-girly', banding together to bring even more girls into FIRST and STEM, regardless of what they like to do with their hair?! I think we're all being a little judgmental here.

The way I saw this booth was as a first step in Lynn Tilton's efforts to help bring girls into FIRST. Since she is a person I'd consider a successful role model, I think it's pretty cool that she's going to use two of her more female-focused companies to try and shed some attention on FIRST for a new audience. To me, having those companies at Championships was a way for her to get us behind that movement, (sort of a "hey, FIRSTers, we're here!") and then for her to follow up going forward with FIRST information broadcasted out to I Am Jane's target customers.

It's really too bad that instead of rallying behind her idea to bring more girls (yes, the ones interested in makeup) who might not have seen FIRST yet in their lives, we're essentially saying that 'those girls' aren't welcome here.

I'm seeing a lot of parallels to when will.i.am was first announced as a partner in 'making it loud'. I distinctly remember people saying 'we don't want the kind of people who listen to his music in FIRST.' I think Will's support has been pretty awesome, and a big step in the way of changing culture - you know, the entire goal of the organization?!

We can't be a niche culture or a secret club anymore. Time to start being a little more accepting of those outside the 'robotics norm'.

EDIT::

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The point I'm getting at here is that effective inspirational mechanisms seem to have a common theme: communicating the idea that "you can do it too". Inspiration should be making these aspirations seem possible and within reach. I think there's value in showing that you don't have to be a specific "kind" of woman to be a STEM hero, but I think this role-model ism needs to be coupled with other forms of inspiration to really sink in. Otherwise you just present another example of how "only super humans can do STEM".

Maybe a few women who otherwise wouldn't enter our lab would because of this program, and that would be great. There needs to be some caution though in including a company whose business model inherently rides on the patriarchal idea of a woman's worth being partly determined by her appearance. Then again, we happily welcome companies who profit off of war into FRC, with open arms, so maybe this isn't such a big deal

I agree with this. It's a careful line to be on, but we have to balance this the right way. I think it's a good opportunity to try and bring some girls who wouldn't ordinarily see FIRST, but I do understand the point of 'let's not teach girls that beauty is everything.' That's right! Let's instead teach them that they are smart and awesome and capable, and oh by the way -- whatever makes you more comfortable and confident? Go rock that.

[Kimmeh]

After having read this article, posted by Katie, I would love to see the interviews talked about below:

The girls read magazine interviews about three female university students displaying feminine characteristics (wearing make-up and pink clothes, likes fashion magazines) or gender-neutral traits (wearing dark-colored clothes and glasses, likes reading). Role models also displayed either STEM success (described as an engineering star, praised by a chemistry professor) or general school success (described as a freshman star, praised by professor from an unspecified field).

I'm assuming there was a photo shoot accompanying the article and given how media portrays everything else, I have a hard time believing that each one of those girls wasn't wearing makeup or at least digitally altered in some fashion. Perhaps her skin was airbrushed to remove some acne, or some foundation and concealer was applied to hide the fact that she didn't sleep well the night before because she was stressing out over a test or project.

Personal background time:

Growing up, I had a sizable collection of toys that would rival the most diverse pre-school. All of the building type toys, dolls/Barbies, makeup/hair things, coloring materials, and books galore. We had a full (7 feet tall) bookcase dedicated to just books for children of all ages. And I LOVED to wear dresses. My mom can sew (it's still black voodoo magic to me) and she regularly made me dresses for various holidays. Then I turned 7 or 8 and just stopped wearing them. I still don't know why. As a teen I wouldn't touch them and now at 22, I'm "rediscovering" them and even own MULTIPLE dresses. (Gasp!)

And now? I'm studying to be an engineer. Personally, I'd be turned off by "student displaying feminine characteristics" because from the quote alone, it sounds hyper-feminine. Nauseatingly so. Why did she have to be in pink? Why not a more feminine cut top (as opposed to say a t shirt) in a light color? Why couldn't she wear glasses? Why do reading and glasses seem to go together in this study as being "unfeminine"?

It's been my experience that usually people have varied interests. I build robots, swing dance, wear makeup, LOVE bright colors, and am studying engineering. I'm a role model to those on my team yet my interests don't seem to lump me into any one of those pre-defined categories... Just because I wear makeup doesn't make me feminine just as wearing glasses and loving to read doesn't make me "gender-neutral".

I agree with Jane's feelings on wanting girls to feel confident. You don't have to use makeup to look like a clown. What about using it to teach girls the power it has to allow them to focus less on what they look like* and more on what they're doing? For that matter, I've seen some men who are better at applying no-makeup makeup (makeup that looks like you're not wearing) than I am.

* Middle and high schools are often incredibly self conscious. It's a trope in movies and tv where the lead will have a "massive acne breakout" before the big event. I feel that used correctly, makeup can allow both men and women to focus less on personal flaws, that few others notice except for them, and focus more on the task at hand. (Do you really notice light acne on someone? I know I don't. Do I notice even the tiniest speck on my face? You betcha.)



Tangentially related: In addition to all that above, I'm queer. And I'm out. More than seeing more girls in STEM, I'd love to see more support for LGBTQ FIRST students. The STEM field is harder than most to come out in because it is so polarized by gender binaries and expectations. I've talked to a few teams about starting to get involved with supporting LGBTQ students in some of their outreach efforts and each of them has been worried about backlash from their school and parents. This is a topic I haven't seen brought up at all on CD. Regardless of your feelings on homosexuality or gender binaries and expectations, all of our students should feel supported and included.

If anyone, student or mentor, wants to talk to someone about identifying on the LGBTQ spectrum, my inbox is always open. Or heck, just pm me and let me know that I'm not the only queer CD'er on here.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

After having read this article, posted by Katie, I would love to see the interviews talked about below:



I'm assuming there was a photo shoot accompanying the article and given how media portrays everything else, I have a hard time believing that each one of those girls wasn't wearing makeup or at least digitally altered in some fashion. Perhaps her skin was airbrushed to remove some acne, or some foundation and concealer was applied to hide the fact that she didn't sleep well the night before because she was stressing out over a test or project.

Personal background time:

(...cut for space...)

If anyone, student or mentor, wants to talk to someone about identifying on the LGBTQ spectrum, my inbox is always open. Or heck, just pm me and let me know that I'm not the only queer CD'er on here.

Kimmeh, thanks for sharing. I respect your thoughts a lot and applaud the way you presented yourself. As I get my thoughts together I will probably PM you to ask about ways to make my team more of a "safe" (for lack of a better word coming to mind) place for LGBTQ students.

I'm proud of this community for discussing the issue the way we have. *THIS* is what CD should be like all the time. Let's keep it that way.

...to continue the conversation:

Chris offered some awesome advice about working with female students on teams. There definitely is a stigma that skills involved in STEM activities are natural, and we should work to show / teach anyone who feels this way that they too can learn any skill involved in STEM industry through dedication and passion. (I know that I fail at this often when I say things like, "I'm not good at math." That statement may be true, but I still should acknowledge that with practice and dedication I have the power to change that.)

Katie offered some great alternative ways to engage girls in STEM activities / FIRST. I appreciate those articles that you posted. I plan on spending time throughout the week reading them closely. (They're a bit long to try to digest all at once currently).

While Katie is promoting alternate ways to engage women in STEM, I very much appreciate Libby's post as well. I believe what she is eluding at is this concept of "(s-word) shaming" that is prominent in our society, especially middle and high schools.

This is what I have been struggling to figure out in this conversation:
What is the root cause of the lack of female students in STEM activities? I believe that it is because of a variety of reasons, but that one big reason is the tendency of women to judge other women.

Why do we do this? Why do we have labels like "girly-girl," "(s-word)," "prude," "makeovers," etc?

What does it mean to be "feminine"?

How do we model healthy body-image, confidence, and compassion to our FLL students, who are the most impressionable?

No one has all the answers. And I certainly still don't think my opinion is THE ONE to listen to. But having this discussion here, and feeling comfortable expressing our different opinions is a START.

Using positive words to describe ourselves and other women, no matter how they look or act, is also essential.

Edit: CD is censoring my link/word. I'm respecting that, but just wanted to point out that I don't mean the s-word that means poop.

[Mastonevich]

Appears they did do a makeover for a few boys too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_nZ...gEw t7JGSfcrM

[Red2486]

When speaking with Lynn, a big thing for her was that she didn't want women to feel like they had to give up anything to be in STEM. She doesn't want the more "girly-girls" who do like to wear pink and makeup and high heels to feel as though we couldn't be ourselves and be successful in STEM. She wants all kinds of women to confidently be a part of STEM and FIRST, and I think that is a really valuable effort.

Also, of all the cosmetics companies out there, I think Jane is probably one of the best to be affiliated with FIRST. Their mottos include "Compassion is contagious" and "Live to give". Lynn and her staff really represent these ideas well.

[Moon2020]

To add to the discussion, a few thoughts and real examples:

Most females want to help people. They do not necessarily see how engineering helps people when they are K-12. What is engineering and how does it help people? needs to be introduced to them before grade 6 to spark their interest.

The SWE booth at Champs was performing various hands-on workshops with the students. I perform hands-on workshops with female students to let them create a mini-robot of their own design that they can take home with them - a lesson in creativity and design. They seem to love it once they get past the part of there are no directions (I get asked sometimes). Some get it on their own, some partner, some copy off their neighbor, and some do not even try because "it's too hard". Some think it's 35 minutes of social time.

The lack of women in STEM is complicated and is going to take much time to fix. I would like to think it is getting better as new hires are pushing employers to be the workplaces of the future and instituting change. Just know that there have also been several studies on why women in engineering leave the workforce (just because they enter it, it does not mean they will stay in it).

People fear that which they do not understand. That fear leads people to act out against their fears and the people in their workplace. Instead of accepting diversity, they create adversity vs. taking a live-and-let-live attitude. For example: I had a supervisor who hated goth kids/people who shopped at Wal-Mart and had no qualms about expressing her disgust either. I know someone else who thinks gay men are going to recruit his sons to be gay. Just know that not everyone is a natural includer.

There are still men in the engineering workforce who believe that women should not be engineers: their opinion is that a woman's place in their workplace is to bake cookies, make copies, and fetch their coffee for them. I say this because I had two physically attractive female friends who had this actually happen to them. Another friend worked for a company who's CEO hated women in his workplace. She is an amazing woman, and she really helped them out with their production.

Certain sectors of engineering are still very very conservative. Do not show tattoos, piercings, unnatural hair colors, or say what you really think or feel because people form perceptions based on what you look like rather they actually know you or not. One of the ladies who worked on the same floor as I did would wear super short skirts, wedged espadrilles, and low-cut sleeveless tops to work. It makes people stereotype her into the category of performing certain types of favors in exchange for promotions - rather is was true or not - she was sending the wrong message. Keep in mind that the engineering staff is not allowed to wear skirts/dresses, heels, open-toed shoes, jewelry, etc. in the processing areas that had metal grating platforms.

TV shows like TBBT are not helping: People identify with Penny and laugh at the expense of the smart characters. I had to stop watching because I know real people just like Sheldon, Raj, Howard, Amy, Bernadette, Leonard, and yes, Penny and I could not stand seeing them be the butt of jokes/made fun of week after week. It feeds the stereotypes and the us vs. them.

Not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, mechanic, computer programmer, pharmacist, teacher, nurse, brick layer, general contractor, electrician, plumber, airline pilot, waiter/waitress, cashier, etc. Not everyone possesses the skill-sets needed even if they are smart. It takes determination, persistence, passion, perseverance, problem solving, and a positive attitude to be successful. Otherwise, we end up with people who are mediocre or below mediocre at what they spent so much money to learn in school/university.

With that being said, sometimes weaker areas can be improved upon. I had issues with math that I had to overcome. It took about 30 minutes of sitting down with a professor to figure out my issue, and I never had a problem after that point. Math is just like any other problem in life: 1) recognize the type of problem; 2) what are the steps to solve that type of problem?; 3) what do you think the answer should be? 4) solve the problem; 5) Do the Results make sense/are the results in the ballpark?

[Foster]

I figured this was a good a place as any to post this article about the number of girls at St.Louis. I think they did a pretty good job talking about the teams and the STEM opportunities.

[BThompson]

From my perspective which is that of a female who has always been "one of the guys" or a "tomboy" and very involved in working on my team's robot, I just wanted to share my thoughts on this subject. I have been in FIRST for ten years going from FLL to FTC to FRC and have been on fabrication, electrical, and programming subgroups.

I went to Worlds this year as a Dean's List Finalist and heard both of Lynn Tilton's talks. I can't say for sure what Ms. Tilton wanted to communicate, but the message I got was: "Okay, as a female, you have done robotics, but I'm here to make you look pretty/girly!" She was in the perfect position to encourage girls to get involved in the STEM side of robotics, but she made no mention of it. Of the 11 kids on my team this year, six of us were girls, but I was the only one who would work on the robot. The other girls on the team were comfortable with writing and public relations, but attempts to get them to help with the robot were not successful. They felt like programming and building was for the guys. If Ms. Tilton had come in with her helicopters, as she said she could have, what a great female role model it would have been for the rest of the girls on my team. But by bringing in her cosmetic products instead, she missed an opportunity to encourage females to get involved in STEM fields.

Ms. Tilton's cosmetic booth was not the only time I felt girls were being stereotyped at Championships. As a Dean's List Finalist I was told that I would have a picture taken with Mr. Noel Lee, President of Monster. We were told, "Mr. Lee would like you to pick a set of headphones. Put them around your neck for the picture." There were two colors available: pink and matte black. Never having liked pink I asked for the black set to wear for the picture but was told, "No, you must wear the pink ones." Just because I am a girl?

Not all girls want to wear makeup and like all things pink. I was deeply saddened at Championship to see girls stereotyped in these ways. FIRST is in a unique position to encourage girls to get involved in the STEM fields, but they missed some great opportunities in St. Louis to do just that.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Does anyone have a video of her speech or transcript of it from the Dean's List ceremony? I'm interested that people heard different messages.

What do you think her message should have been?

What do you think of Dean's push to involve other businesses besides just the STEM companies?

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by BThompson

As a Dean's List Finalist I was told that I would have a picture taken with Mr. Noel Lee, President of Monster. We were told, "Mr. Lee would like you to pick a set of headphones. Put them around your neck for the picture." There were two colors available: pink and matte black. Never having liked pink I asked for the black set to wear for the picture but was told, "No, you must wear the pink ones." Just because I am a girl?

If you were asked to do this, it was not by FIRST. Please know your story has been noted. In the future, sponsors asking for media will need to be more logical about things like this.

I'll try and track down a copy of the speech, if the video of the Dean's List ceremony isn't yet up on FIRST's YouTube channel. I got to spend some considerable time with Lynn, and I know the intent behind her words was certainly NOT 'I'm here to make you look pretty'.

As I've said before, her thoughts on bringing her more female-oriented companies to Championship was to help make the FIRST community aware of the outreach she has planned to do through them, to help bring girls who have not yet seen FIRST into our community. She wants to use these companies as well as others to help reach out and spread the message of FIRST. She's not here to 'fix up' the existing people in FIRST, she's here to get us more people. Yes, more girls, with varying interests.

One of the main points in her speech, and why she brought I Am Jane to the CMP, was the company's motto: "Compassion is contagious". She feels that the more confident a person feels in their own skin, the more energetic and enthusiastic they're going to be about the world around them. Nowhere in her speech did she say that people HAD to wear makeup to be confident, valued, or any of the other things we seem to be assigning here. In fact, I'm almost certain she said something about the fact that what brings you confidence is different for each person.

I think what she was hoping for as a response was excitement from the community about a new way to bring young women who might be discouraged from science & tech BECAUSE they are 'girly girls', into FIRST.

Was bringing a makeup station to Championship the best way to communicate that? Maybe, maybe not. But I sincerely hope the community can understand what her intent was - to get us, the existing FIRST community - girls and boys alike- behind this movement to help get some new FIRSTers from other audiences.

As Dean has said time and time again, we're preaching to the choir if we're only telling other techies about FIRST. It's time to get to the point of a household name, and we can't do that if we only stick within our own crowd.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

Tangentially related: In addition to all that above, I'm queer. And I'm out. More than seeing more girls in STEM, I'd love to see more support for LGBTQ FIRST students. The STEM field is harder than most to come out in because it is so polarized by gender binaries and expectations. I've talked to a few teams about starting to get involved with supporting LGBTQ students in some of their outreach efforts and each of them has been worried about backlash from their school and parents. This is a topic I haven't seen brought up at all on CD. Regardless of your feelings on homosexuality or gender binaries and expectations, all of our students should feel supported and included.

If anyone, student or mentor, wants to talk to someone about identifying on the LGBTQ spectrum, my inbox is always open. Or heck, just pm me and let me know that I'm not the only queer CD'er on here.

This is an interesting topic, and I am actually surprised by your experience, I would strongly recommend you start a thread discussing these types of issues. As an observation, the HS team I was on at least 50% of students were LGBTQ, I also attended an old very traditional engineering school that had a very active and well respected LGBTQ community, and now am working as an engineer and know many LGBTQ co-workers, I always believed the STEM community tended to be pretty accepting as there isn't much stress put on your personal life, but rather on your technical abilities, perhaps I am completely wrong about that, either way I think it warrants its own thread and discussion.

[tsaksa]

Originally Posted by carolyn

I saw this booth yesterday in the pits and was instantly confused. I guess I just don't really understand why they were at the event. In a place where it is heavily emphasized that both males and females are capable of doing the same work on teams, whether its on the organizational side or the technical side, it was strange to see something that is so gender-targeted and has seemingly nothing to do with FIRST's mission.

For what it is worth several male members of our team took advantage of the booth to get eye shadow, lashes and other makeup done up just for kicks. I am not saying that they looked good after it, but did seem to have fun with it. Many of the female members of the team also seemed to like the idea.

I guess when it comes to FIRST I try to be open to support from a variety of sources. What does a company like J. C. Penny have to do with robots? Do they sell programmable controllers? Do they market aluminum flat stock? No, but they are a member of the community that sees the value of supporting our youth and recognize FIRST as a great way to do that. That is usually enough for me from any sponsor.

[Moon2020]

Originally Posted by tsaksa

I guess when it comes to FIRST I try to be open to support from a variety of sources. What does a company like J. C. Penny have to do with robots? Do they sell programmable controllers? Do they market aluminum flat stock? No, but they are a member of the community that sees the value of supporting our youth and recognize FIRST as a great way to do that. That is usually enough for me from any sponsor.

J.C.Penney's Investment in FIRST as part of its own existing afterschool program.
I'm not exactly sure how many of these Teams were supported by J.C. Penney's Grants, but we lost the following 17 Rookie teams between 2012 and 2014:

Florida Rookie Teams Lost between 2012 and 2014:
3938 Miami Radix Robotics 2013
4052 Fort Myers Wolfpack 2013
4066 Groveland MechMate 2013
4088 Port Charlotte Flash4ward 2013
4133 6406 E Chelsea St S2-Boltz 2012
4157 Fort Myers Imaginarium 2012
4179 Cantonment Tahisco Techs 2013
4184 Naples Wreck-techs 2013
4190 Port Richey Hephaestus 2012
4197 Dade City Lacoochee Cowboys 2013
4214 Riverview Robo-Flames 2012
4222 Sanford Frolicking Nerds 2012
4223 Lakeland Robo-Flight-Transformer 2013
4321 Jacksonville Vikings 2013
4333 Tampa Team MOSI 2012
4341 Mulberry Panther Robotics 2013
4706 Miami Bulls 2013

[thegnat05]

Originally Posted by Libby K

Am I any less of a mentor because I like makeup and hair and high heels just as much as I like building robots with my students?

Where is the place in FIRST for a girl who likes 'girly' things but also likes robots? Why are we putting her down in this thread? She is no less of a FIRSTer just because she likes to dress up, and if she enjoyed the I Am Jane booth, then good for her!

I'm unfortunately reading some of the posts in this thread as 'Real FIRST girls don't -need- all that silly hair and makeup stuff,' and I'm pretty disappointed in that attitude. Let's instead teach them that they are smart and awesome and capable, and oh by the way -- whatever makes you more comfortable and confident? Go rock that.

I find this post so inspiring. When I heard that Jane Cosmetics was going to be at FIRST champions I got really excited because I enjoy wearing makeup as well as other stereotypical girly things. That being said I am also a leader on my FRC team and I truly love FIRST robotics and engineering. Not all girls love pink but some do. I think when trying to attract more females into STEM programs, girls should be looked at as equals to boys. There is nothing wrong with a girl that likes to build robots and there is nothing wrong with a girl who likes to do the chairmans award presentations and work more on the business side of things. Something that I have experienced in my 3 years in FIRST is never being looked down upon just because out of all of the hands working on the robot mine were the only ones with red nail polish on them. FIRST has a place for everyone and in my experience is a very open and welcoming community.

[Sparker]

I personally talked to Lynn Tilton by request of Dean Kamen. When we spoke, she emphasized her belief that brains and beauty do not have to be separate.

Ms. Tilton is not saying that you need to wear makeup to be beautiful or smart; she is saying that for many women, makeup boosts confidence. And confidence is integral to success in any field, especially STEM fields that are traditionally dominated by men. For Ms. Tilton, confidence came from makeup. She wants to share makeup with girls so that they too may feel more confident; she is sharing her secret ingredient for confidence in the hope that others may find their own secret ingredient for confidence.

Dean wants to get more girls involved in FIRST. He wants to spread the word to these girls, and what better way than by spreading FIRST with makeup, one of the products women use most? By affiliating FIRST with makeup, FIRST can reach out to girls who may be outside of STEM. I think that a makeup partnership will be beneficial, because when girls buy their makeup from Jane, they will discover that Jane sponsors FIRST, and will potentially learn more and join FIRST.

Personally, when I first considered joining Exploding Bacon, I did not think it was for me; I didn't think I was that much of a nerd or a geek. Soon afterwards I realized that FIRST is not just for nerds or geeks, but I went into it thinking that it might very well be. We need to stop this preconceived notion. The first thought that FIRST should produce is not “oh that's just for nerds,” but “oh that looks like fun.” FIRST needs to break the social boundaries that promote the separation of popular from nerdy, and brains from beauty.

As for the makeovers at Championships, I think they're a great idea. They really promote the idea that brains and beauty go together. The girls that wanted makeovers went and got one, and the girls that did not want a makeover did not get one, just like the people that wanted to learn about Monsanto went to the Monsanto booth, and those that did not want to, did not go to the Monsanto booth.

I believe that the goal of the Jane booth and FIRST's partnership with Ms. Tilton is to help girls in FIRST feel more confident—if they need more confidence—as well as to promote FIRST to unconventional audiences (the audiences that we in FIRST also need to focus our efforts on obtaining) because FIRST has two goals: to create well-prepared STEM leaders, and to create a new generation and new culture that reveres STEM and recognizes its importance.