Einstein Drivetrains?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

We can clear this up easily. 4 omni wheels can be called butterfly, to keep the Bees happy and the 148 style drive train can be called Tex Coast Drive like it should be*.

*For those wondering, I'm going to keep depending it be called Tex Coast Drive for the foreseeable future, so you should probably just get on board.

I just think it's weird that the first drivetrain called butterfly was an articulated traction / omni combination... Then the term enters (vaguely) popular use to refer to the other kinds of articulated drives in 2012-2014... But now we're changing it because of one team? If all omni was always the intended meaning of butterfly and a traction mode was always an "extra", then I probably have been misunderstanding the term the whole time.

I can see the challenge of picking a different name for it though. "Omni drive" implies holonomic capability. Perhaps "omni wheel tank" would be more descriptive? Doesn't exactly bounce off the tongue.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I just think it's weird that the first drivetrain called butterfly was an articulated traction / omni combination... Then the term enters (vaguely) popular use to refer to the other kinds of articulated drives in 2012-2014... But now we're changing it because of one team? If all omni was always the intended meaning of butterfly and a traction mode was always an "extra", then I probably have been misunderstanding the term the whole time.

I can see the challenge of picking a different name for it though. "Omni drive" implies holonomic capability. Perhaps "omni wheel tank" would be more descriptive? Doesn't exactly bounce off the tongue.

It's my understanding the original name was given because of the omni only portion of the drive, hence the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" phrase. The omni wheels being the "butterfly" and the traction wheels being the "bee". It became a short hand for the entire articulated drive base but it makes more sense to refer to only the omni portion as "butterfly" since it's the part that is doing the "floating".

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I just think it's weird that the first drivetrain called butterfly was an articulated traction / omni combination... Then the term enters (vaguely) popular use to refer to the other kinds of articulated drives in 2012-2014... But now we're changing it because of one team? If all omni was always the intended meaning of butterfly and a traction mode was always an "extra", then I probably have been misunderstanding the term the whole time.

I can see the challenge of picking a different name for it though. "Omni drive" implies holonomic capability. Perhaps "omni wheel tank" would be more descriptive? Doesn't exactly bounce off the tongue.

I don't think you're misunderstanding it at all. Texas basically thinks it's its own country, so they can have their own regional name for a drive train too

It's like pop versus soda versus cola-- they're the same thing, but different regions call it different things. Texas can call it Tex-Coast drive all they want, but Neutrino introduced me to butterfly drive, so I'll call it that. It doesn't really matter-- we're still referring to an articulated omni and traction wheel drive train.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

It's my understanding the original name was given because of the omni only portion of the drive, hence the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" phrase. The omni wheels being the "butterfly" and the traction wheels being the "bee". It became a short hand for the entire articulated drive base but it makes more sense to refer to only the omni portion as "butterfly" since it's the part that is doing the "floating".

JVN posted why they called it butterfly here.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=15

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by cadandcookies

I don't think you're misunderstanding it at all. Texas basically thinks it's its own country, so they can have their own regional name for a drive train too

It's like pop versus soda versus cola-- they're the same thing, but different regions call it different things. Texas can call it Tex-Coast drive all they want, but Neutrino introduced me to butterfly drive, so I'll call it that. It doesn't really matter-- we're still referring to an articulated omni and traction wheel drive train.

Are you implying we're not our own country?

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Are you implying we're not our own country?

I make no comment as to the statehood or lack thereof of Texas.

[BBray_T1296]

On our 6w tank we have used 1/16" drop center the past 2 years.

That is, the center wheel is 1/16" below the line you draw between the two outer axles, so at any one time, one wheel is 1/8" off the ground. The low drop makes the robot much less wobblier and has no negative effect. We are happy.

[Bryan1625]

I'm 1625's base driver, and were running a 6 CIM drive with a 16fps free speed (so about 14fps friction speed). Single speed no fancy shifters or anything d: we have 2 DT vex pro 4 inch wheels on the back and 2 Vex pro omnis on the front. I drove a butterfly drive and had a lot of fun doing fancy spins and learned how to control the squirlyness of the drive which helped this year. It helps to get around defense very easily. Thank you everybody for the words of encouragement (: if any more questions pop up feel free to message me!

[BJC]

Don't go changing drivetrain names because of us. Butterfly will always have drop down omnis to me.

My signature has been the same for a number of years. I've been calling our drivetrain this year "4 Omni Wheels" which I think has a certain honest ring to it.

If I had to change it though, it would be "Greased Pig Drive" which is what our team compared it to throughout the season. You can push it around but you can't pin it down.

Cheers, Bryan

[Bryan1625]

I've played a lot of defense and I never thought an all 4 omni drive would be so hard to stay on! You guys really made finals on Archimedes interesting kudos for driving it like you stole it!

[Bryan1625]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

No kidding, the entire drive team was pretty much on point every match...I wish I could be that good...

I'm a junior as well as our AUX driver and our human player is a sophomore so well be together next year as well!

[Drivencrazy]

Is there any historical data for this subject (Einstein Drivetrains)? I'd be interested to see how many non-tank style drives have made it to Einstein in the past.

[asid61]

Originally Posted by Drivencrazy

Is there any historical data for this subject (Einstein Drivetrains)? I'd be interested to see how many non-tank style drives have made it to Einstein in the past.

+1. I would like to know this as well.

[RoboChair]

Originally Posted by Mr. B

So from the general conversation, I am guessing that most if not all of the drivetrains had a dropped center. If so, can anyone give me some idea how much to drop the center. On the KITBOT we used I believe all the wheels touched?

1678 ran with a 0.090 drop center and 6 cim WCD with high gear of 22fps(20 attainable) and 8 fps low gear.

[Monochron]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

*For those wondering, I'm going to keep depending it be called Tex Coast Drive for the foreseeable future, so you should probably just get on board.

I really think that "butterfly" is a better name for these actuating drives. It gives a better idea of the characteristics of the drive in that it suggests quick fluttering movement. I know the original reason for naming it "butterfly" has nothing to do with that, but it works regardless.

In addition to that, "Tex Coast" makes it sound like some kind of variation on West Coast which it most certainly isn't. KOP drop center and WCD are similar in comparison to actuating drives and it follows that actuating drives should have a distinct name. Honestly I think that an actuating drive with Mechanums should also be under the class of "Butterfly" simply for nominal organization purposes. It is very convenient and efficient to refer to all actuating drives with one name and then further qualify them with what kind of wheels are in there. "Octocanum" is incredibly misleading.

Sorry to derail the thread, all these different names makes it very difficult for someone curious about different designs to actually learn about them.