Wrecked Aluminium from chopsaw

[gabrielau23]

A vertical band saw with a blade made for metal or a horizontal band saw with a blade made for metal probably work better than the chop saw. Imo, it's very dangerous to be cutting a piece of aluminum that large on the chop saw, and I'm hoping you guys clamped it at first. I think it COULD be done with the chop saw, but I would look into getting a horizontal band saw. Those things are amazing for metal. (Of course, milling it is preferred, but good mills can use up $$ quickly)

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

It's interesting to see a lot of us have converged on essentially using the same saw. A 14" blade saw designed for metal with the proper blade.

We're loving ours so far, it's a huge time saver during season.

It's amazing when things that are designed for a given purpose actually work for that purpose.

But yeah, that Dewalt multicutter has saved us so much time this year it's ridiculous.

[fox46]

I'd love to hear why you think a chop saw DESIGNED for cutting metal is not the right way? That's your opinion and not a fact.

This is the internet- everyone has an opinion and everyone is an expert. It's why we have discussions like these.

How many times have you had or heard of a workpiece being picked up and shot across a room by a circular saw? How many times has the same happened with a bandsaw or recip. saw?

Have you heard of anyone losing fingers to a circular saw? What about bandsaws or recip. saws?

You can't deny the circular saw is far more dangerous than the other two.

Therefore, it is not the best option regardless of speed or convenience.

You're going to argue this by saying "it can be just as safe as long as *** and *** and you don't ***." Well each of these *** represents increased chances of something going wrong.

Ultimately you need to put safety before speed cost and convenience because nothing brings a build season to a screeching hault faster than a student getting hurt.

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by fox46

This is the internet- everyone has an opinion and everyone is an expert. It's why we have discussions like these.

How many times have you had or heard of a workpiece being picked up and shot across a room by a circular saw? How many times has the same happened with a bandsaw or recip. saw?

Have you heard of anyone losing fingers to a circular saw? What about bandsaws or recip. saws?

You can't deny the circular saw is far more dangerous than the other two.

Therefore, it is not the best option regardless of speed or convenience.

You're going to argue this by saying "it can be just as safe as long as *** and *** and you don't ***." Well each of these *** represents increased chances of something going wrong.

Ultimately you need to put safety before speed cost and convenience because nothing brings a build season to a screeching hault faster than a student getting hurt.

Man, cars are a bad idea, I should just walk everywhere.

Teaching proper usage of equipment and enabling students and team members to be more productive is always the best idea.

But you do need to draw the line somewhere, in this case some have chosen proper training and using equipment designed for the job, You have chosen to require less training, and addition ops.

-Aren

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Aren_Hill

Man, cars are a bad idea, I should just walk everywhere.

If only their was a better balance between a car and walking.
You know something that has 2 wheels and balances.

Originally Posted by Aren_Hill

Teaching proper usage of equipment and enabling students and team members to be more productive is always the best idea.

But you do need to draw the line somewhere, in this case some have chosen proper training and using equipment designed for the job, You have chosen to require less training, and addition ops.

-Aren

I don't know if there are that many additional ops involved.
Even with cold saws I mill or grind the ends that are critical.
Take for example a 1-2-3 block they aren't just cut.

I think the issue is also one of expectations.
There are plenty of ways to cut aluminum but not everything needs be micron accurate.

In fact wasting time for accuracy you don't need is as much an issue as designing things that require accuracy when there are more forgiving alternatives.

[team222badbrad]

Originally Posted by fox46

Have you heard of anyone losing fingers to a circular saw? What about bandsaws or recip. saws?

You can't deny the circular saw is far more dangerous than the other two.

A bandsaw requires you to use your hands to push the part towards the cutting blade. How is that better then having one hand (or both) on the cut off saw handle which is several inches away from anything that can cut them?

I've come much closer to cutting my fingers on a band saw than I ever have with our Dewault cutoff saw.

I'm not going to debate which is safer. Is it a factor that should be used in determining which tool is best for your needs? Sure. I'm just proving a point that a band saw being used normally has a greater potential of cutting fingers than a chop saw that is used properly and so I could argue that it is more dangerous than a chop saw when it comes to finger safety. I could also argue that a chop saw is more dangerous because it has a greater potential of flying debris and so it could cause harm to anyone standing in the path of the saw blade. Would it be safe to cut a round shaft on a bandsaw? NO! Would be be safe to cut a round shaft with a chop saw? Absolutely!

So why are table saws so dangerous? The user is always pushing the part towards the saw blade with his hands. This is the same as pushing the part towards a sharp moving bandsaw blade.

[Chief Hedgehog]

Evo Cold Saw - all I am going to say.
http://www.oceanmachinery.com/evolution_saw.htm#380 Evolution Steel Saw

[FrankJ]

A bandsaw requires you to use your hands to push the part towards the cutting blade. How is that better then having one hand (or both) on the cut off saw handle which is several inches away from anything that can cut them?

Actual I have gone in another room & made coffee while cutting parts with the band saw.

A band saw will cut you just as fast a chop saw, but it is a lot less likely to cut you finger off.

[mrnoble]

As a shop teacher with 30+ years of history around woodworking power tools and 13 years in the classroom, I have seen accidents and results of accidents from chop saws, table saws, lathes, jointers, band saws, sanders, drill presses, and everything else. Fortunately I've not had to deal with students suffering injuries likely to change how their hands work, but I've seen that and worse happen to adults and children elsewhere. Use the right tool for the job, make sure you prep it correctly, and be thoroughly trained. Students should work within sight of a responsible adult and always check to make sure what they are planning to do is correct and safe.

Regarding bandsaws being a "safer" choice: see the meat packing industry and what they use band saws for.

[Dale]

The best $1K I ever spent was when we moved from using a chop saw with aluminum blade to a cold saw. Besides the piece of mind of knowing students fingers are likely to stay attached, the noise is vastly less. Cold saws just turn at around 100 rpm so the difference is night and day. Ours is this one from Jet.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Dale

The best $1K I ever spent was when we moved from using a chop saw with aluminum blade to a cold saw. Besides the piece of mind of knowing students fingers are likely to stay attached, the noise is vastly less. Cold saws just turn at around 100 rpm so the difference is night and day. Ours is this one from Jet.

If your cold saw is running at around 100 RPM it is likely a cold saw for ferrous material.

Non ferrous cold saws are up in the 2000-3000 RPM range

[Dale]

That's true, our cold saw is designed to handle steel but does a dandy job on aluminum.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

As long as you don't go too fast, you'll be fine.

We use a chop saw quite a bit during build season for cutting aluminum tubing, angle, box extrusion, etc. I've found this advice to be key - don't rush the cut, don't slam the blade down into the material with a ton of force; let the tool do the work.

[Dale]

No matter how careful you are if students are hand holding the aluminum you will find a typical chop saw will eventually grab the aluminum and do something scary with it. Maybe it will fling it across the shop, maybe mangle it, maybe just scare the pants off a student or maybe cause serious injury.

When we were using a chop saw for aluminum we'd have something scary happen about once a year. Thankfully no one ever got hurt but it sure got my attention. And the noise, oh the noise.

If you insist on using a chop saw to cut aluminum, please figure out a way of clamping it so students aren't hand holding it.

[geomapguy]

Best thing we ever bought

http://www.amazon.com/Morse-CSM14MB-14-Inch-Dry-Cut-Cutting/dp/B000IHXOKI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0V285P96W7YRB23 TAPCA